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YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

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Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#341
Why should "alleging" anything be policed? I concur that painting widespread fraud as "definite" seems like a false claim (at least with current evidence), but let's leave that aside for now. Exploration of election fraud would have to begin with speculation ("alleging"), just like challenging any prevailing thought begins with speculation. For example, imagine if no one was permitted to challenge the WHO's claim earlier this year that there was no human to human transmission of the coronavirus. Furthermore, if there WERE fraud happening, there aren't any great avenues by which outsiders could detect it to offer up evidence. The system is too opaque, proprietary in its implementation, and varied across jurisdictions to allow gathering of evidence. So the notion that there must be hard proof before people can talk about a problem doesn't make sense to me in this instance.

Some thoughts on content curation and censorship by big tech platforms: YouTube is not a small backwaters website. It is one of the most influential and popular websites, with reach greater than most countries' governments, and it is therefore a digital public square. YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, and Facebook should not be allowed to implement restrictions on content beyond what the law minimally requires, since doing so effectively curtails practical access to the right to free speech. And I am not talking about legal technicalities of free speech as enshrined in current US law, but rather the fundamental principle of free speech - something worthy of aspiring to regardless of what the law allows right now.

Lastly, a word on elections: elections need to implement the law strictly and be tightly controlled. There should be nothing left to chance. This means there needs to be multiple cross-checked counts by default, with a variety of organizations involved (observers and counters from parties, media outlets, etc.). There should be random sampling of ballots where citizens are asked to vote a second time to validate their initial ballot. There should be strong voter verification to disallow any illegal voting. All machines and software must be open source and audited by third parties. People should be able to verify their ballot's choices were recorded as expected online. And so on. I realize some of this may run into limitations of secret ballots, but we can perhaps come up with technical solutions to allay those fears (like issuing one-time use logins for each election that have no PII tying a ballot back to a specific individual).

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#342
Youtube has no more obligation to host these videos than your local coffee shop has an obligation to host an oral reading of Chairman Mao's Little Red Book. This lack of obligation is not censorship -- it's private property rights and the free market in action. If you want to hear a recitation of the Little Red Book while you sip coffee, you are free to patronize a coffee shop that will do so, or even start your own coffee shop. Likewise, you're free to use a different video platform, or start your own.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#343
post #281

This is ridiculous. Regardless of your politics, this is just going the wrong direction. Where was this policy when the other side was pushing the Russia collusion narrative for years?

Nice false equivalence. Judges have ruled that Trump's side has failed to show any evidence of fraud in Court, losing 50/51 court cases, with the "win" having nothing to do with fraud[1]. On the other hand, there are literally thousand of pages from the Senate Committee on Intelligence showing evidence of Russian Interference in 2016. [2] [3], along with the Mueller Report [4]. Russian Interference in 2016 is not com…

The other side had hordes of FBI and DOJ professionals digging every nook and cranny for years in an attempt to find evidence. That did not stop anyone from screaming "Russia collusion" all over social media and the 24/7 news cycle.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#344
The cynic in me sees this, which is just the latest move in a series of overreaching actions being taken by the big social media giants, as an effort to get Section 230 repealed.

The more blatant they are in their partisan actions, the more they rile up the opposition and the more the pressure on lawmakers to repeal Section 230.

Once that happens, they get to have full control over the content on their platforms "because the law makes them liable", and they never have to worry about competition ever rising up against them ever again. They basically got to ride the coattails of Section 230 to the point of a monopoly; repealing it just gives them everything they want.

Ah whatever, censorship is not the answer in a free democracy. Freedom of speech has to be more than just a law written on some paper somewhere for it to mean something; it has to be something the people believe in their day-to-day interactions with their fellow countrymen. I suppose that's gone at this point...

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#345

We are very fortunate to have the algorithms, employees & management of Youtube/Google watching out for us. We're not intelligent enough to view a video and decide for ourselves what is fact v. propaganda v. entertainment. Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people with even more content moderation. Thank you Google - you're the nanny the American people and the world always hoped f…

Once again a thread about censorship invites comments that ignore the nuance of the situation. Having companies dictate what information is widely accessible is dangerous for democracy. Having the sitting president make completely baseless claims in an effort to delegitimize the results of an election because it didn’t go his way is also dangerous for democracy. That’s what we call a tricky situation. We don’t have a…

What's tricky about it?

Regarding the former situation, the president is one person with clear, self-serving motives. His actions are constantly examined under the critical eyes of the media and his political opposition. The public itself can also use social media to provide additional scrutiny (with varying degrees of quality and professionalism).

The public has to search through garbage to find the truth. It's all easy to access, but there's a lot to go through.

In the prior situation, businesses are trying to denying the public access to provide scrutiny based solely on the content of the message, regardless of quality. Those same businesses also happen to facilitate content discovery for the overwhelming majority of internet users. There are still political opponents and a few media organizations which might broadcast the message, but it will unquestioningly reach a much smaller audience.

The public still has to search through garbage to find the truth. Now, though, some of it is much harder to access.

Neither is good, but the prior situation sounds much worse to me.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#346

We are very fortunate to have the algorithms, employees & management of Youtube/Google watching out for us. We're not intelligent enough to view a video and decide for ourselves what is fact v. propaganda v. entertainment. Hopefully some day we will have the same protections the CCP gives its people with even more content moderation. Thank you Google - you're the nanny the American people and the world always hoped f…

All praise to our information gatekeepers!

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#348
This is the same platform that is the backbone of the information for flat earth and every other conspiracy theory based on ignorance that becomes widespread. But when they decide they don't like people to know about some some legitimate ongoing litigation they take it down.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#349

For God's sakes ... What underpins this need for social media companies to virtue signal about protecting 'election integrity' is the false notion that 2016 was stolen from Hillary by the Russians - a claim that had no evidential support (and no, that some trolls bought a minuscule amount of Facebook ads does not raise this claim to that level) but the entire Democratic party, with media allies, promulgated for the l…

The current Tech Companies news narratives makes no logical sense to me. Here is why:

We were told that Russia interfered in 2016 elections and helped to elect Trump. Now, we are told that 2020 elections were of the highest integrity. Why wouldn't Russia interfere in 2020 elections? Were they scared of Trump administration? But wait, we were told that Trump was Russian puppet, so they would be scared of him, right? So again, why wouldn't Russia interfere in 2020 elections? Or did Russia interfered in 2020 election, "just as they did in 2016", and elected Biden this time?

In short, Tech Media narrative does not make sense to me. And all censorship eventually fails, just take a look at the Fall of Socialism in the Soviet Union.

Re: YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread election fraud

#350
post #43

>Connecting people to authoritative information Top channels from picture. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com ABC: Left of Center NBC: Left of Center USA today: Left of Center CNN: Left CBS: Left of Center The "Authoritative Sources" are all Left-wing news agencies. So in other words they have done like Wikipedia. They have determined that Left of Center is authoritative and have limited the reach of alternative viewpoin…

For people who doubt your characterization of where the "center" is, consider this: 2/3 of Americans oppose the Supreme Court decision banning school prayer. Is your idea of a "centrist" person someone who believes school prayer would be a good idea if the law were different?

There is no Supreme Court decision banning school prayer. There is a Supreme Court decision[1] that upheld the traditional separation of church and state and interpreted the First Amendment to mean that state-run schools cannot force children to participate in a prayer. In particular, state legislation mandating prayer violated the Establishment Clause.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engel_v._Vitale

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