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Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

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Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#341

Post by Mikushi »

ericb wrote: post #299
FiberBundle wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that's a high percentage of infected people. Do you have statistics that back up that claim?

Heart complications (inflammation): up to 60% (after removing pre-existing) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/... Mental illness: 20% within 5 weeks https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0... Chronic Fatigue: 50% at 10 weeks https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.29.20164293v...

How does that compare with other viral illnesses?

Not downplaying, I've had bad episodes of flu that left me low on energy for weeks, want to see how that compares and if it's been looked into (I expect not given recency).

My recovery from Covid in March was about on par with a bad flu, was late April until I felt good again and was back to normal on a physical level.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#342

Post by anoncake »

whatshisface wrote: post #298
m1117 wrote: post #157

I'd go and get it ASAP, so I resume my life. Anti-vaxxers can isolate themselves forever :)

Vaccines are not 100% effective. You should continue to isolate until the virus is gone. If everyone that gets vaccinated immediately starts partying again, that 10% or so for whom the vaccine has no effect will contribute to prolonging the pandemic.

The virus will never be gone.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#343

Post by FiberBundle »

ericb wrote: post #299
FiberBundle wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that's a high percentage of infected people. Do you have statistics that back up that claim?

Heart complications (inflammation): up to 60% (after removing pre-existing) https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamacardiology/fullarticle/... Mental illness: 20% within 5 weeks https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0... Chronic Fatigue: 50% at 10 weeks https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.29.20164293v...

Thanks for the links. So how do I know these value are abnormally high compared to say a severe flu? I've read in the thread on hn that posted about the mental illness results that the values for a severe flu are 13%. And what implications do, say, a "lower left ventricular ejection fraction, higher left ventricle volumes, and raised native T1 and T2" have? Why is that worse than the risk of potentially (without knowing any probabilities obviously) developing autoimmune conditions as a result of taking the vaccine?

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#344

Post by tzs »

jowsie wrote: post #278
tzs wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't know yet if there are complications from the vaccine. It is not possible to judge long term effects of anything based on very short exposure ... > Looking at this selfishly and from PoV of game theory, the best decision is to let vaccinate everybody else but don't take vaccine yourself. Obviously, not everybody can make same decision There are two different ways a medicine might have long term unintended a…

Isn't it a bit early to say it's not a take once a year vaccine? Afaik we don't even know if getting covid makes you immune to covid longterm, we definitely don't have the long term info on these vaccines yet.

There is some recent research indicating it produces the kind of immune response that provides long term protection [1], at least if you get a strong initial response. Here's an article about that research [2].

There have been some people who have been reinfected with it, but I saw another recent article about this latest research that talked a bit about those cases. It said that they are believe to be people who did not have a strong immune response the first time. The vaccines should produce a strong response.

[1] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/10/27/scie...

[2] https://www.darkdaily.com/mount-sinai-researchers-find-that-...

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#345

Post by Supermancho »

whatshisface wrote: post #298
m1117 wrote: post #157

I'd go and get it ASAP, so I resume my life. Anti-vaxxers can isolate themselves forever :)

Vaccines are not 100% effective. You should continue to isolate until the virus is gone. If everyone that gets vaccinated immediately starts partying again, that 10% or so for whom the vaccine has no effect will contribute to prolonging the pandemic.

> until the virus is gone

Gotta go kill all those animal carriers and test/innoculate every person in the world (more or less) continuously for some time, then you have a chance. The specific virus will not be eradicated within our grandchildren's lifetime, afaik.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#347

Post by chaostheory »

anoncake wrote: post #334
chaostheory wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't immunity only last several months though?

No, it stays strong and shows no sign of weakening.

According to several studies, that's not true.

"Two new studies demonstrate how severity of disease is predictive of longer-lasting antibody production and detail how immunity wanes over time but may exist for up to 7 months."

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/10/studies-...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/duration-isola...

There's also evidence of re-infection

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#348

Post by caturopath »

chaostheory wrote: post #325
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #312

Do we know how long does the vaccine holds? Is that like polio and lasts for years, or like the flu and you need a new dose each year?

Unless I missed it, there hasn't been any data released. I'm only seeing PR accouncements.

AIUI, the thing that makes a vaccine's effectiveness very short term, like flu vaccines, is the natural evolution of the virus, not its effect on the immune system. It's not that people who got a 2015 flu aren't still immune to the 2015 flu, it's that wild flu virii look different in specific ways that cause them to slip by. As such, I think these drug companies don't really have much to release for each vaccine.

(That isn't to say the immune system can't forget immunity - TDAP boosters are for evolution, but for refreshing the immune system - but that super short term immunity like flu, AIUI, is about the virus not the vaccine.)

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#349

Post by caturopath »

chaostheory wrote: post #326
Exmoor wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a rush, so hopefully someone can dig up some actual links to scientific papers, but current immunity from naturally infected people has stayed strong and shows no sign of weakening. The immune response from the vaccination has at least as strong, so in all likelihood we're looking at very long response.

Doesn't immunity only last several months though?

No, that's just been a popular conspiracy theory.

Re: Pfizer submits Covid vaccine to FDA for approval, to distribute in December

#350

Post by phillc73 »

xiphias2 wrote: post #226
phillc73 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fortunately I don't need to though, because soon we'll probably have 2 great vaccines to choose from. Indeed! And I'll be going with the adenoviral route which has been used for more than fifty years, rather than the brand new, first time ever mRNA product.

What are your main concerns with the mRNA product? Are you afraid of long term side effects? We already know that it has less short term side effects than the adenoviral vaccine. Actually I'd like to see deeper thinking about it from professionals.

I'm not a medical doctor, but I do work in pharma and I have tried to inform myself. Still, I could be quite wrong.

Yes, I do have some concerns regarding long term effects of mRNA based vaccines. As you said, I would also like to see some deeper thinking about this. I feel that other delivery vectors may be better known and have an existing track record.

I also understand that mRNA treatments have had some excellent outcomes in cancer patients. However, these treatments have been highly personalised, based on the patient's own DNA. Therefore, I also wonder about the general medium and longer term effectiveness of mRNA for coronavirus vaccination.

I'm in no way an anti-vaxer. I'm completely vaccinated for all the common things (MMR etc). As is my child. No problems with something that's been around for a long time and is well known.

I would just like to make my own choice regarding which brand new, accelerated testing regime, vaccine I decide to inject.

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