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Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

latimes.com

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Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#341

Post by ed25519FUUU »

munificent wrote: post #266
beamatronic wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did masks ever get conflated with “freedom” anyway. But regardless, don’t people have a sense of self-preservation? When does that kick in?

> How did masks ever get conflated with “freedom” anyway. The Republican Party, Trump, and Fox News did that deliberately because Trump early on chose to downplay the virus and response to it. Backtracking on that would have made Trump lose face and harmed the Republican brand in an election year, so instead they chose to politicize it and double-down on not wearing masks.

Weren’t all of our politicians downplaying it initially? I remember “come on down to Chinatown for the Chinese New Year celebration” and that definitely wasn’t Trump, who at that moment was attempting a travel ban on China.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#342

Post by leetcrew »

ryandrake wrote: post #325
dboreham wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because some people are selfish and stupid. It's fascinating to watch, for example, people commenting on Facebook about vehicles driving too fast in winter conditions, endangering other road users. But those same Facebook commenters will say that nobody can order them to wear a mask...

If governments enforced COVID restrictions as well as they enforce speeding and DUIs, we wouldn't have to rely on people being smart and considerate. All these stay at home "orders" and mask "mandates" and they didn't mean squat and had little effect because almost nobody was fined or went to jail for violating them. It's the easiest thing to enforce, too. In my city alone, a single police officer with two functionin…

> If governments enforced COVID restrictions as well as they enforce speeding and DUIs, we wouldn't have to rely on people being smart and considerate.

odd comparison to make. I find that in the midatlantic US, speeding and DUI are not enforced very consistently. with speeding, there seem to be only a couple days of the month (usually the last few days) where a bunch of cops are out with radar/lidar pulling people over. with DUI, you are quite likely to get away with it if you aren't intoxicated to the point where your driving is noticeably erratic. the exception would be the few times each year where they actually have checkpoints on certain roads.

> It's the easiest thing to enforce, too. In my city alone, a single police officer with two functioning eyes could probably issue hundreds of mask violations a day. It's not like you have to search someone or go out of your way to see they aren't wearing a mask.

this seems like it could be counterproductive. for one thing, issuing a ticket is necessarily a close physical interaction. for another, what if the interaction goes south and the cop has to grapple with the offender, arrest them, and take them to jail? does this really serve the goal of preventing covid transmission?

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#343

Post by [deleted] »

3JPLW wrote: post #337
timr wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Disregarding the guidance of health professionals such as wearing a mask and socially distancing means endangering other people's lives." ...which isn't different than any other year. Every year, the flu kills tens of thousands (in the US -- higher worldwide). Disproportionately children. Every year, driving kills hundreds of thousands, even when you exclude the effects of alcohol. Every year, people have sex withou…

I'm not "free" to ignore stop signs, stop lights, and speed limits. They impact my freedom to drive as I'd wish -- because otherwise I might hurt you. I'm not "free" to start cooking commercially out of my home kitchen without inspections and licensing. This impacts my ability to earn an income -- because otherwise I might make you sick. It's public health risk mitigation. We do it all the time.

[deleted]

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#344

Post by Balgair »

atty wrote: post #20

What are HNers planning to do for the holidays? We’re seriously considering not seeing anyone, not even parents, even though my SO has had COVID already (she works at a hospital and contracted it from COVID patients). Stories like this are the main reason. Even if no one at the party gets very ill, the chance of further spreading it to others seriously scares me.

My family has already lost four this year. We have two more very high risk people in the family.

There will be plenty of time next year when the vaccine comes out.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#345

Post by timr »

ceejayoz wrote: post #331
timr wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can call it whatever you want, but you're using the analogy to make an argument, and the analogy is extreme.

The analogy is intended to demonstrate that the implied claim that "'my body, my choice' must extend to everything or it's hypocritical" is extreme.

You're arguing that this situation should be an exception to the usual rules of personal liberty that we all take for granted -- I should be able to require you to wear a mask and not meet with family members, because $disease is deadly and transmissable.

OP pointed out that this is contradictory to the usual rhetoric on abortion.

Your response was that we make just such an exception for guns and drunk driving. The implication, therefore, is that this is of such an equivalent moral imperative, that the same reactions are justified here.

You may not want to be drawing the analogy, but if you aren't, there's no point in raising the subject at all.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#346

Post by timr »

3JPLW wrote: post #337
timr wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Disregarding the guidance of health professionals such as wearing a mask and socially distancing means endangering other people's lives." ...which isn't different than any other year. Every year, the flu kills tens of thousands (in the US -- higher worldwide). Disproportionately children. Every year, driving kills hundreds of thousands, even when you exclude the effects of alcohol. Every year, people have sex withou…

I'm not "free" to ignore stop signs, stop lights, and speed limits. They impact my freedom to drive as I'd wish -- because otherwise I might hurt you. I'm not "free" to start cooking commercially out of my home kitchen without inspections and licensing. This impacts my ability to earn an income -- because otherwise I might make you sick. It's public health risk mitigation. We do it all the time.

"It's public health risk mitigation. We do it all the time."

Not responsive to the argument. You might hurt me in any other year, too. We don't tell people to avoid their families at thanksgiving, stop going into the office, etc. "all the time". It's unique. This year.

The flu is about as dangerous to me as SARS-CoV2, for example. How many years of your life, so far, have you avoided seeing your family at holidays in order to protect me?

Cars are also more dangerous to me than SARS-CoV2. How many years of your life have you avoided automobiles, because you might kill me in an accident?

The logic is the same. You may feel as though there is a justification for telling people not to see their families at Thanksgiving, but that's your opinion. Other people have different opinions, and they're equally valid.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#347

Post by beamatronic »

mmastrac wrote: post #219
beamatronic wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My response would be to live in a burbclave surrounded by similarly-minded individuals

So... a country?

It's a reference to a book called "Snow Crash"

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#348

Post by 3JPLW »

timr wrote: post #346
3JPLW wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not "free" to ignore stop signs, stop lights, and speed limits. They impact my freedom to drive as I'd wish -- because otherwise I might hurt you. I'm not "free" to start cooking commercially out of my home kitchen without inspections and licensing. This impacts my ability to earn an income -- because otherwise I might make you sick. It's public health risk mitigation. We do it all the time.

"It's public health risk mitigation. We do it all the time." Not responsive to the argument. You might hurt me in any other year , too. We don't tell people to avoid their families at thanksgiving, stop going into the office, etc. "all the time". It's unique. This year. The flu is about as dangerous to me as SARS-CoV2, for example. How many years of your life, so far, have you avoided seeing your family at holidays i…

It's not just about protecting you, though. It's also about protecting our limited healthcare resources.

Every year I get the flu shot to protect me, you, and our shared healthcare.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#349

Post by NotTheDr01ds »

jjulius wrote: post #33
atty wrote: post #20

What are HNers planning to do for the holidays? We’re seriously considering not seeing anyone, not even parents, even though my SO has had COVID already (she works at a hospital and contracted it from COVID patients). Stories like this are the main reason. Even if no one at the party gets very ill, the chance of further spreading it to others seriously scares me.

Normally we'd fly out of town for Thanksgiving/Christmas to our respective families, but my wife and I are staying put this year. My parents are coming to us for Thanksgiving, but we are making them get tested the weekend prior, quarantine at home for a few more days, then they are driving to us only stopping for gas (so, wipe down the pump with a Clorox wipe and then use hand sanitizer after touching it). That proce…

Suggestion for gas pumps:

I carry rolls of dog poop cleanup bags. They make great temporary gloves that you can slip over your hand before touching the gas pump, and they slide off into the trash easily without touching the outside with the other hand.

Keep in mind that Clorox wipes still take 30 seconds to kill the virus (according to the manufacturer page). Most people don't tend to wait after disinfecting a surface before touching it, meaning the cleaning agent may become more diluted and less effective.

Better yet, disinfect and wear a baggie-glove while pumping. I don't disinfect the pump when wearing a plastic bag glove myself, but I do use hand sanitizer as soon as I'm done.

Re: Super-spreading wedding demonstrates Covid-19 risk posed by holiday gatherings

#350

Post by 3JPLW »

dfsegoat wrote: post #94
ceejayoz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, just like drunk driving or twitching your trigger finger when someone just happens to be in front of the gun.

>> or twitching your trigger finger when someone just happens to be in front of the gun. Poor example, as Firearms safety 101 would prevent this: - always point weapon in safe direction - finger off trigger until ready to fire - know your target and what is behind it - treat every weapon as if it were loaded. https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/

Poor response, as pandemic safety 101 would prevent this:

- wash your hands

- wear a mask

- practice social distancing

- avoid extended periods indoors with non-household members

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-si...

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