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Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

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Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#341

Post by titanomachy »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #297
deanclatworthy wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can only speak for those in the web tech industry, but salaries go from 4-6k euros. Take-home pay would be in the region of 2.5-4.5k most likely. I've seen a lot of whining about the high taxes here, but honestly this is not a European way of thinking. You are safe here. You have a safety net if things don't go right in your work or health. Taxes are also super simple. You tell the tax office your predicted income,…

4-6k seems high even for Helsinki. For starting position you can expect 2-3k, then as you build towards seniority you can get to 4-5k range, but you can expect to work for 5-10 years before you get to that 5k/mo (before taxes). Now all kind of exceptions will come out the wood works telling me how they are "easily" making 10k/mo by doing something and working for someone who they won't admit. Yes even I know someone…

Interesting, these seem somewhat comparable to Canadian pay levels! Canadian taxes are similar, and public programs are good by global standards but not nearly as good as Finland (e.g. free healthcare, no free daycare, University education costs the equivalent of ~5k euros per year in Canada).

As a beginning developer I made the equivalent of ~3k euro/month in Canada and worked my way up to 5k in 3 years.

With a bit of experience and luck one can then move to the US to make ~15k euro/month and pay 30% lower tax rate, at the expense of basically all functioning public institutions :)

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#342

Post by gautamcgoel »

cool_dude85 wrote: post #168
dkdk8283 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which most people don’t need in their earning prime

That's right, people don't need health care for themselves, or their kids, or their parents, in their earning prime. Neither do they need to pay educational expenses like private school or college. Wait a sec, actually, people famously need to pay for all those things in their earning prime! What was I thinking?

I think he was talking about a single person with no kids.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#343

Post by ponker »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #295
ponker wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not ethnically Chinese you are an underclass in Singapore. If you are not black you are not an underclass in the United States. I have no idea what it is like to be black in Singapore but for anyone else, I would think "not being an underclass" is high on anyone's list.

Doesn't having a popular black president in the US from 2008-2016 rather undermine the idea that black people are an underclass in the US? As opposed to being a group that on average have lower income than other groups in society? Couldn't assuming that any individual black person has low income or is part of an "underclass" be considered racist, in the sense of making judgements about individuals based on their skin…

LOL. I'm definitely assuming that you don't live in the US otherwise you could not ever make a specious claim like "black people are not an underclass in the United States." Even the hardcore Trumpies will agree with this claim, they will just blame it on the black people themselves and say it's the consequence of poor choices rather than racism, they won't point to Barack Obama and Neil DeGrasse Tyson and say "no they're not."

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#344

Post by kebman »

socialdemocrat wrote: post #40
Devils-Avocado wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: 24% VAT (sales tax) 18% employer payroll taxes 10% employee payroll taxes 20-30% typical income tax Take your American disposable income and cut it in half. Still worth it for 'free' education and 'free' healthcare? Also a lot of cold and darkness.

It is not like taxes disappear into a black hole never to be seen. Most of that money comes back to you in the form of services Americans would have to pay for anyway. What matters is what the taxes give you. A lot of American taxes don’t give people much of anything. Maintaining the worlds largest prison population is expensive but what exactly does that give the Average American? Worlds largest military also sucks…

> What matters is what the taxes give you.

Indeed. Like less trust from the state in how you use your own money, and less power to decide over what to do with the money you've earned from your own hard work. Instead you are forced to trust that the government is better at allocating that money than a private company.

You effectively get no choice in the matter either, except every fourth year. And that isn't even a real choice, because you're not choosing a better medical company, or a better insurance deal against joblessness when you vote. Instead you're hoping that more than 50% of the people who are eligible to vote in your country, will agree with you that the medical deal or accident insurance (and a whole swathe of other stuff, take it or leave it) offered by some politician that you like, is also liked by them. If not, then you're forced to take whatever the people—who do not have your own best interest at heart—wants instead, because they just happen to be in the majority. On top of that, you're supposed to celebrate it, and thank the guys who forced you to accept what you'd rather not have. That's what's known as a democracy, and somehow you're supposed to think that that is the pinnacle of "freedom"...

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#345

Post by titanomachy »

danjac wrote: post #332
waihtis wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is that it's a super difficult language where you can't draw any help from any other languages you might now. Plus it's obscure and if you move out of Finland you'll likely never use it again. I can see why people don't want to invest huge amounts of time learning it unless they plan to stay for the rest of their lives.

It's not that difficult. Grammar is logical, few exceptions, not many hard sounds to learn for English speakers. I found it easier than Russian for example (took the YKI test for citizenship some years ago).

My inlaws are Finnish... the total lack of germanic/romance cognates makes it very difficult for me to remember any vocabulary. But I've never really put in a serious effort to learn it.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#346

Post by Cocktail »

mapgrep wrote: post #221
timsally wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I was an American, I wouldn't want to be footing the bill for Global Security either. There is a deep and nuanced conversation to be had here, though I will say fourstar already made one important point very succinctly. [1] I will point out that it has been the position of the American people since WWII that we are happy to foot the bill for global security. So while you might not feel that way, Americans feel d…

Ww2 in Europe was largely won by the USSR. Britain and the US opened a western front quite belatedly after years of begging by the USSR, after the Soviets sacrificed 15+ million lives to turn the tide, and after a lot of wasted time focusing on minor gains in North Africa (at Churchill’s insistence). Combined US and UK military’s deaths were less than a tenth those for USSR. We love to pat ourselves on the back with…

>Finland incidentally was a key ally for Hitler in his attack on the USSR.

Key ally how? Beyond diverting troops from the southern front to the finnish theater, how did finland contribute to the german war effort? You also seem to forget that then leader marshall mannerheim refused to advance on key cities in the north, such as st. petersburg and petroskoi even though hitler was quite insistent.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#347

Post by multimedial »

Happiest country in the world? According to my book, the Finns are rather known for their depressive outlook and 'reserved' mode of communication. Anything besides a hello is considered superficial chit-chat. This said, I'd rather prefer a sincere yet reserved Finn to an outgoing but superficial American.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#348

Post by ollifi »

dmix wrote: post #277
deanc wrote: post #190

Overall my experience in Helsinki has been hugely positive. I’ve been here now over a decade and have settled with work and family life. Work life balance is great, there’s a beautiful outdoors to enjoy all year, and the people are warm and kind, if not difficult to start with. All that said, there’s a lot of bullshit and hot air here in this thread: - public healthcare is great until you have something difficult to…

What time do the stores close in Helsinki? I heard in Sweden from a friend who lived there briefly that everything was dark and closed early like 6-7pm. The opposite of a place like NYC or even here in downtown Toronto where it's normal to find plenty to do until midnight. They said it was some sort of strict cultural thing. Everyone wakes up early and you got to get used to that early schedule. And I've been a life…

It used to be like this but this image is bit outdated. During recent decade laws got changed and grocery stores can be open now 24/7. Some of the stores do this. It’s not limited to convenience store sized stores so even some of the largest ones are open if you enjoy strolling alone food isles at 4am.

Other stores close 9pm. Bars are open till 2am, night clubs 4 or 5am. Some places stay open but they can’t serve alcohol in the morning hours. Getting food after 12am is trickier but there are restaurants that are open until 4am.

And it’s dark. And people on average go to work early and clock out early. And definitely not new york or berlin nightlife wise.

Talking about helsinki here pre covid regulations.

Edit: reading other comment, it’s true most speciality stores which only have one set of employees close 6-8pm. Larger chains are open till 9pm

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#349

Post by cbmuser »

rebuilder wrote: post #246
deanc wrote: post #190

Overall my experience in Helsinki has been hugely positive. I’ve been here now over a decade and have settled with work and family life. Work life balance is great, there’s a beautiful outdoors to enjoy all year, and the people are warm and kind, if not difficult to start with. All that said, there’s a lot of bullshit and hot air here in this thread: - public healthcare is great until you have something difficult to…

As far as language goes, my advice for learning a new one would be the exact opposite of what you say. Force yourself to use the language all the time, everywhere. Otherwise people will just default to English with you, and you'll have a hard time learning the local language. It'll be very stressful for a few months, but, in my experience, will get you conversing in about half a year.

As an avid language learner, I can confirm this.

I always make most progress when I’m forced to use the language when I’m in the country.

I’m surprised OP isn’t fluent with the language after 10 years in the country.

Re: Helsinki Relocation Package: City as a Service

#350

Post by labster »

h0l0cube wrote: post #244
labster wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the US military is obligated to defend Europe under Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty.

Techinically , you are right, but as with the treaty with Iran[0], or the Paris Agreement[1], etc. the US can leave. The US can basically do what it wants, and the political consequences are relatively minor. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Ac... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Agreement#Withdrawal_fro...

The political consequences of the US withdrawing from NATO would be unimaginably large, not relatively minor. It would be like the partition of Rome, fundamentally reshaping the world order.
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