A Guy Walks into an Apple Store • Hacker News Board

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#341

Post by llampx » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #31

chrisseaton wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want a USB-A charging cable in 2020? My laptops don't have that anymore, and I don't even have recent laptops. Like most people I know would have to to use a dongle. No thanks. Move as quickly as possible to USB-C, please Apple, and no need for charging bricks anymore. > it really feels like a cost cutting measure they are trying really hard to spin as an eco-friendly one This is cynical.

> > it really feels like a cost cutting measure they are trying really hard to spin as an eco-friendly one > This is cynical. The iPhone SE launched with earbuds and a plug. It no longer ships with them. The retail price hasn't changed. It can be good for the environment and a cost-cutting measure. Another commenter has noted that by making the box about half as thick, that doubles the number of units that can fit in…

I find it a total branding win from Apple that people are even discussing this. To me it is a clear loss to the customer and to the environment. You only have to go on any Apple forum to see people getting their power bricks and cases shipped separately from their iPhones. Its beyond my pay grade to calculate the extra emissions from those power bricks being shipped separately, assuming not every new iPhone purchase is accompanied by a power brick purchase, but the profit margin for Apple went up for sure.

This is the new normal. Sealed hardware to discourage battery replacement, no 3.5mm jack to discourage reuse of old headphones and to encourage sales of Airpods with their tiny 2 year batteries, and now, no power bricks to encourage sales of extra power bricks. All greenwashed and the idiot consumer buys it.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#342

Post by llampx » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 1:00 PM UTC

hugecannon wrote: post #331

magoon wrote: post #325

By removing the charger from the package, you may have to buy a charger that comes in its own packaging. Net new waste. Including the charger in the package was actually the best way to prevent additional waste. Moreover, an iPhone box is potentially an item people will not throw out, while the charger packaging is.

> charger that comes in its own packaging. Net new waste. I think the point is that the charger itself is the waste being avoided. Not the charger packaging. Surely Apple have done some analysis into what portion of their customers will not require an additional charger with each phone purchase.

I'm sure Apple has done analysis... to see how many USB-C chargers they'll be able to sell. And has likely provided training to staff accordingly to get accessories sales up. Where the customer may have been happy with the 5W charger and crappy earphones included in the box, it'll be a MUCH easier upsell to a fast charger and good earphones now.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#343

Post by llampx » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 1:02 PM UTC

projektfu wrote: post #245

paxys wrote: post #3

I don't think even the most hardcore Apple superfans are buying the "reducing waste" argument. They have the right to make their products more expensive, and that's fine. People are going to keep buying them regardless.

I once joined a gym that had a high startup cost and a high monthly rate but was close to work. Despite these high prices they wanted to nickel and dime. I quit. The iPhone 12/128gb is $879. I might not mind paying that but if you’re asking me to be less wasteful at that price point, offer me a free charger if I need it. I had the same opinion back in the day about paying for ethernet in a 5 star hotel when the winga…

I worked at a high-end gym/spa like that once. They tracked their secondary spend very closely. Staff were trained to upsell at any turn, from personal training (why don't you buy the 3 month package ma'am?) to drinks (we have this brand new smoothie and protein bar, have you tried it?).

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#344

Post by ryankrage77 » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 2:14 PM UTC

I've been trying to figure out an 'optimal' solution to this problem, and I'm not sure there is one.

Include a charging brick - extra waste, less phones shipped per container, etc. Bad for the environment.

Switch to USB-C - millions of lightning cables need to be disposed of. Bad for the environment

Include a lightning-to-USB-A cable but no charging brick, so people can use their existing bricks - people already have lightning-to-USB-A cables with their existing bricks, so people get extra redundant cables & people need to buy lightning-to-USB-C cables instead. Bad for the environment.

Apple's current solution (no charging brick, lightning-to-USB-C cable) - people can use existing iPhone chargers, plug it into their mac or USB-C accessories. Some people need to buy a new brick or wireless charger. Still pretty bad for the environment, but arguably better than the above ideas.

Make a user-serviceable phone with replaceable battery, etc, so it lasts longer and they can slow down the phone release cycle - iPhone prices go up, Apple's stock goes down. A bad move for Apple, but probably better for the environment.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#345

Post by Qub3d » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

errantspark wrote: post #292

ashtonkem wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incandescent light bulbs should really be understood as space heaters that happen to emit light.

At the end of the day all electronics are just space heaters with interesting side effects. It's getting cold and I'm using my GPU to heat my living space, it just happens to emit computation as well. Gotta keep gaming to capture the excess value!

At the end of the day, all work* is just the production of heat with interesting side effects. Entropy is a cruel mistress.

*in the physics sense

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#346

Post by theandrewbailey » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #189

californical wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2-3kWh seemed impossibly low to me, so I checked, and yup, that’s amazing. A phone battery at 5V and 2500mAh (probably about the average) is approximately 12.5Wh of energy storage. Even if you used the entire battery every day, we’re talking 4kW per year, costing ~60¢ in the US. Your phone battery could only power a standard 60W incandescent lightbulb for 12 minutes, but powers your phone for hours. That’s amazing!

> standard 60W incandescent lightbulb Which is why nobody uses incandescent bulbs anymore. You can get the same amount of light for 1/5 of that power with LEDs, i.e. your phone could power that amount of light for an hour.

It's not hard to find houses with incandescent bulbs in the USA.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#347

Post by ksec » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 2:34 PM UTC

diebeforei485 wrote: post #184

ashtonkem wrote: post #143

I really hate arguments about how much electricity wireless phone charging wastes because it makes people feel like they’re doing something when in fact they aren’t. Charging a cell phone every day for a year consumes about 1-2 kWh per phone. The average American household consumes 10,399 kWh per year, meaning that a typical smart phone consumes one 5000th, (0.02%) of a typical home’s electricity (excl. natural gas)…

Do we have a % efficiency figure for MagSafe specififally? How does it compare vs wireless charging in general?

It is just inductive charging. So nothing special.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#348

Post by srtjstjsj » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

ryankrage77 wrote: post #344

I've been trying to figure out an 'optimal' solution to this problem, and I'm not sure there is one. Include a charging brick - extra waste, less phones shipped per container, etc. Bad for the environment. Switch to USB-C - millions of lightning cables need to be disposed of. Bad for the environment Include a lightning-to-USB-A cable but no charging brick, so people can use their existing bricks - people already have…

1. Optional brick

2. Connector adapter.

3. Battery is replaceable. Just take/send it in to the shop or sell it to a refurbisher.

This isn't rocket science.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#349

Post by ksec » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 2:42 PM UTC

allenu wrote: post #177

ashtonkem wrote: post #143

I really hate arguments about how much electricity wireless phone charging wastes because it makes people feel like they’re doing something when in fact they aren’t. Charging a cell phone every day for a year consumes about 1-2 kWh per phone. The average American household consumes 10,399 kWh per year, meaning that a typical smart phone consumes one 5000th, (0.02%) of a typical home’s electricity (excl. natural gas)…

Thanks for doing the math. I always found it funny that Apple was advertising how they were doing such a great service to the environment by not packing in a charger. If they really cared about the environment, they'd avoid updating their product every year and encourage users to keep using the same device for longer, but of course they would never do that.

The Median upgrade Cycle for iPhone user are closing in to 3 years, with the whole industry trending to 4. And when you consider most of the used iPhone are being passed on to another user ( Family Members ) Generally Speaking iPhone as a product and ecosystem is doing pretty damn well.

What Apple needs however is to make swapping Battery cheaper, and invest in battery technology that makes them last longer in cycles. Right now the battery replacement is $ 69 for iPhone 12. While the iPhone 8 and below are much more reasonable $49.

Re: A Guy Walks into an Apple Store

#350

Post by ksec » Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 2:52 PM UTC

Zak wrote: post #59

samatman wrote: post #38

Literally every one of the existing options still works. Ok with charging at 5w? Plug your lightning-to-A cable into the little tiny cube charger they've been selling since forever. Already have a faster USB charger? It works. Ok with Qi at 7W? Works Oh, you want the new shiny MagSafe puck system? Great. Buy it. This analysis completely ignores that the new shiny system is supposed to be a better experience . It's co…

I'm disappointed Apple hasn't dropped Lightning and just made all their devices use standard USB-C. I could see their motivation for developing their own connector when everyone else was using micro-B, which has a number of disadvantages, but now USB-C is used to power virtually every other phone and tablet, and many laptops including Apple's own.

There are more Lightning Cables within the iPhone users than there are USB-C cables. There are 1Billion iPhone users, That is at least 1 Billion Lightning Cable, ( not counting possible tens if not hundred of millions sitting in the drawer ).

How many of those has USB-C Devices?

Most of the complain where from Mac users, Ahah, why cant I charge my iPhone with USB-C just like MacBook Pro?

There are 100M Active Mac Users, and I willing to bet there are at least 20M on Mac which dont have an USB-C port.

What you are asking is to change the port to something that barely gives any benefits for the convenience of a small group of users. ( an iPhone with USB-C Port does not automatically mean it will support faster transfer, or higher Wattage charging, both can be done with Lightning Port, should Apple feels the need. )

I just dont understand it.