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Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

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Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#341

Post by Waterfall »

Humdeee wrote: post #287
marakv2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that allowing another app store will ruin your iPhone? That's incorrect. Just don't use it.

> Just don't use it What's the argument here, why not just don't use an iPhone then? Why turn an iPhone into more of an Android? I have an iPhone because I don't want to be like an Android. It's a feature to me that this (and other possibilities, bad and good) is not possible, hence why I bought it.

Sorry because it's been jailbroken you are forced to use alternate stores on iOS. Or you could just not use it.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#342

Post by Ajedi32 »

zaroth wrote: post #255

It would be nice if everyone could start by agreeing that that there's actually a nuanced discussion to be had about how "anti-competitive" a company can be, and also how that answer might change based on the size and profitability of the company under discussion. If your position is that your opinion is absolutely correct and there's no room for discussion, why post at all? It's just ideological battle. With that sa…

I think part of the reason why this case is so polarizing is that it ties in to unrelated issues like right-to-repair and consumer freedom.

As things stand, the owner of an iOS device doesn't have the final say on what software runs on their device; they can only install apps that Apple allows them to. There are some who would consider that to be wrong regardless of Apple's size or place in the overall market, even though that's not really what this case is about.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#343

Post by scarface74 »

newacct583 wrote: post #340
scarface74 wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s no game. Uber didn’t like the rules of the state - it’s leaving the state. That’s a perfectly logical thing to do.

If Uber shareholders thought that they were walking away from all revenue in the state of California their shares would tank. We all know this is brinksmanship. I know it. You know it. They aren't leaving CA. The goal here is to get the "other side" to blink and adjust the rules so they can continue to operate. But at the end of the day Uber isn't abandoning the California ride share market to its competitors. Be rea…

It’s still a negotiation tactic. Would shareholders be happy if the entire business model changed? There are other freelancers that aren’t happy with the laws.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#344

Post by sushid »

dkonofalski wrote: post #301
klmadfejno wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what the judge is ruling is not allowed. There's no basis for it. Apple can't go after an unrelated business because it's having a temper tantrum and feeling spiteful. The fact that fortnite is built on UE doesn't have any significance here.

They're not going after "unrelated business", though. They cancelled Epic's developer account which is exactly the remediation listed in the agreement for the account. If you violate the terms, your account is suspended. Epic brought this on themselves when they made their move without thinking about how that would affect the rest of their business.

I mean you can read the court ruling for yourself. The court disagrees with you there for reasons specified. The court does rule that "Epic brought this on themselves" for the Fortnite app on iOS but not for Apple restricting its SDK for Unreal Engine.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#345

Post by gtsteve »

kergonath wrote: post #226
gtsteve wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but Epic still needs those licenses to support those companies and continue to develop the engine. Regardless of the other matter going on, it looks punitive to me. I think when we look back on this event in 5-10 years' time, we'll see this as a serious misstep by Apple.

Yes, I agree with the first half of what you said, which is not was the OP said. As for the rest, I have seen far too many “this time, Apple is doomed for real” events to agree with your last sentence. Apple could stop selling any device today and still be around in 10 years.

To be clear, I don't think they're doomed, but I think this measure will provide ammunition to those who want to sideload apps and make their own app stores, which is presumably what Epic wants.

I think this has been inevitable for some time, but I think by making this mistake they have they they've accelerated the process and damaged their monopoly far earlier than they had to.

Note: Perhaps I am just seeing what I want to see here. I am hopeful that I and other independent software vendors will be able to avoid their app store one day.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#346

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #325
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of choice, like which store to buy their Epic Game Store exclusive games at... oh wait.

It's funny that people gang up on Epic Game Store exclusives when Steam has been doing exclusives for over a decade. Not only Valve games, but almost every AAA game that isn't made by Ubisoft or EA is basically just a code to unlock the game on Steam. You need to run all the updates through Steam, microtransactions through Steam, start the game each time by Steam. You can't live without Steam for most AAA games.

That's on the companies making those games, Valve doesn't pay them for exclusives and even allows developers to sell Steam keys on other storefronts without taking a cut.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#347

Post by dkonofalski »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #304
Gorbzel wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

B/c in that case Apple would be doing what the haters erroneously claim they do now: making 100% arbitrary/capricious decisions when it comes to the App Store walled garden. As those of us who target iOS know, they're not transparent, but it's not arbitrary. Thank god. We'd never hear the end of unsolicited opinions about the Touch Bar and HN's annual subscription to the year of desktop Linux.

> but it's not arbitrary Then why does Amazon get a special deal?

They don't. All subscriptions drop to 15% after the first year so Apple is just counting the existing time where they were figuring out the process. That still applies to everyone, not just Amazon.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#348

Post by bananaface »

parasubvert wrote: post #315
bananaface wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Apple thinks they're going to lose, so they tried to apply as much pressure as possible to get Epic to settle prematurely. I can't see why else they would have done it, it just strengthens Epic's case.

I think you may be misunderstanding the fundamentals of the case. This was a moonshot by Epic, mostly about the court of public opinion than the actual law.

Oh, don't be patronising. We'll see how the case pans out. I think Apple is in enough danger that aggravating the situation is a bad idea.

https://twitter.com/EskilSteenberg/status/129752027579013939...

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#349

Post by dkonofalski »

sushid wrote: post #344
dkonofalski wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not going after "unrelated business", though. They cancelled Epic's developer account which is exactly the remediation listed in the agreement for the account. If you violate the terms, your account is suspended. Epic brought this on themselves when they made their move without thinking about how that would affect the rest of their business.

I mean you can read the court ruling for yourself. The court disagrees with you there for reasons specified. The court does rule that "Epic brought this on themselves" for the Fortnite app on iOS but not for Apple restricting its SDK for Unreal Engine.

No, they didn't. The court ruled in a way to minimize the calculation of damages. Apple may still be able to continue doing what they intended and revoke that partnership but the judge just ruled that they need to keep operating as they have until this is settled so that they don't have to factor in the potential liabilities of both points.

Re: Apple ordered to not block Epic’s Unreal Engine, Fortnite to stay off App Store

#350

Post by username90 »

dkonofalski wrote: post #301
klmadfejno wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what the judge is ruling is not allowed. There's no basis for it. Apple can't go after an unrelated business because it's having a temper tantrum and feeling spiteful. The fact that fortnite is built on UE doesn't have any significance here.

They're not going after "unrelated business", though. They cancelled Epic's developer account which is exactly the remediation listed in the agreement for the account. If you violate the terms, your account is suspended. Epic brought this on themselves when they made their move without thinking about how that would affect the rest of their business.

> They cancelled Epic's developer account which is exactly the remediation listed in the agreement for the account.

No, Epic is two different companies with two different accounts. Apple canceled both the account for Fortnite and the account for Unreal.

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