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The TikTok War

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Re: The TikTok War

#341

Post by blacksmith_tb »

scruple wrote: post #283
blacksmith_tb wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, but it could be just be pragmatic - if I lived in the PRC, I would be very, very nervous about sharing some kind of unfiltered feed of my data with state entities. Living outside of the PRC, it's harder to imagine what kind of practical use they'd put that same data to - though that might get more exciting if I traveled to China at some point in the future...

Maybe you're right, but I don't think so. For me, personally, it is kind of personal... I have visited China multiple times. My wife is Chinese-American. My children are half-Chinese and will, hopefully, be fluent in Cantonese, Mandarin, Vietnamese (MIL is Vietnam-born Chinese and a Vietnam War refugee), and English. A lot of our extended family still lives in China, in Hong Kong and the mainland (and even Taiwan). I…

Oh yes, I don't think that sounds overly paranoid to me under those circumstances at all. I am sure I am on some lists here in the US for having taken both Mandarin and Arabic as an undergrad (I could only be more evil if I'd added Russian).

Re: The TikTok War

#342

Post by detaro »

dvt wrote: post #339
detaro wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be under the impression that there has to be a simple "situation in, binary judgement out" function that always works. I don't think that exists, as for pretty much any large-scale social problem, especially if you expand it globally, and I don't think my comment suggested that. Doesn't mean it isn't a useful heuristic to suggest why people (in the anglospehere, nowadays) are generally less worried about…

> You seem to be under the impression that there has to be a simple "situation in, binary judgement out" function that always works. There's a huge range between the ad hoc and the binary. For example, I think Mill's Harm Principle is a good place to start. > Doesn't mean it isn't a useful heuristic... I guess that's my point: I don't think it's a useful heuristic at all. Imo, the great majority of people worried abo…

Harm is my primary factor too.

"Weaker" groups are also "weaker" because the harm likely is larger, because of larger existing prejudice being more likely to be strengthened, and having real-life consequences (e.g. on public opinion influencing law-making). The "politicized" is pretty fundamentally connected to that.

Re: The TikTok War

#343

Post by kbenson »

dvt wrote: post #297
newacct583 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anti-Irish sentiment (known as Hibernophobia) has a long and storied history. OK, then let's ban the mean Irish jokes too.

Q.E.D.

There are times when a rationalist approach to societal and cultural issues (and political issues, as they bleed into that) may be more or less acceptable to the public, and I think we are unfortunately at a time where those approaches don't work very well, and indeed are seen as attacks themselves.

I have all sorts of poorly founded ideas on why that might be so, which themselves might be more symptoms than causes, but the bottom line is the same; It's very hard to have a rational discussion between two parties with different points of view these days. I find that one or both will usually have underlying beliefs based on dogma that they refuse to entertain any discussion on, which makes discussing views founded on those beliefs extremely hard to do constructively, if not impossible.

Re: The TikTok War

#344

Post by vincvinc »

mchusma wrote: post #250

Good article, but I do feel disagree strongly with this statement: "while I mourn the end of a free and vibrant Hong Kong that I have had the pleasure of visiting on multiple occasions, I am unmoved by complaints about China’s promised adherence to the Basic Law; that was an agreement imposed on China by a colonial power, and Hong Kong is unquestionably a Chinese city, ultimately subject to Chinese law." Hong Kong is…

Hey, I see you've struck a nerve with some people - even talking about the idea of an independent Hong Kong will send your comment to the absolute bottom.

Have my upvote.

Re: The TikTok War

#345

Post by billjings »

analyte123 wrote: post #76
kpennell wrote: post #11

I'm not sure how I got sucked into Tiktok but I was quickly hooked. There's something so refreshingly playful, authentic, and raw about so much Tiktok content compared to Instagram. Instagram (explore/discovery) is generally pretty people with pretty things in pretty places. That was fun for a while but it's just not that interesting after a while. I don't need to see more pretty pictures of women doing yoga. I don't…

Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. To be popular on Tiktok you actually have to do stuff (even it's fairly banal like dancing or telling stories), not just be (or pretend to be) someone. I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values l…

"I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values like the free flow of information on the internet by...making Apple and Google remove Tiktok from people's phones."

This is what the posted article is about. I cannot write a rebuttal to this that is better than what Ben Thompson wrote, and I won't. The section "A Reluctant Prescription" section is directly about this.

I can rebut this, however:

"However, American tech companies manipulate their recommendation algorithms for political reasons (in the loose sense of the word political) all the time and I'm sure not everyone in the world likes that either."

They don't do it in China.

Re: The TikTok War

#346

Post by fivre »

dvt wrote: post #340
fivre wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, because trans rights, LGBT, race, etc. has been so profusely politicized, it's become a third rail. Making fun of a trans person and an Irish person are, for whatever reason, not on the same playing field any more. I'm not sure what the solution is, but let's not pretend there's no problem. No, you're right, they're not on the same playing field, though saying that they are because one issue is "politicize…

This is a silly argument, because it runs into a wall via a very simple reductio ad absurdum: it's the year 2000, and I made my career making fun of Muslims.. they wear funny things on their heads, do a weird carpet prayer, etc. Uh-oh, now it's 2002. Muslims are being persecuted again in some Southern states because of 9/11. Now, two years later, according to your very own present-day-contextualized-moral-joke-compas…

Are you Muslim? When you, or your hypothetical strawman comic make fun of them, are you punching up or down?

To not mince words here, if your comedy career was wholly dependent on making fun of Muslim cultural practices that have existed for millennia before you were born, in America, a country that totally had no relationship with the Middle East or history of anti-Muslim bigotry prior to 9/11, and you further cannot possibly even conceive of continuing it with some other variety of humor, it probably shouldn't resume. Quit that particular hobby and pick up a history book.

Re: The TikTok War

#347

Post by Dahoon »

orangse wrote: post #214
sharadov wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My naive question is how is Tiktok bad and all other American social media platforms - FB/Insta/Snap good?

My theoretical answer would be that we can regulate American companies more effectively and have them be held accountable, like when Zuckerberg had to go before Congress. I doubt you'd be able to get the CEO of a large Chinese company to do that. In reality we don't regulate them nearly as much as we can, so the end result is that FB and Tiktok both invade your privacy.

But getting him in front of Congress didn't nothing at all. Also then world is bigger than the US and PRC.

Re: The TikTok War

#348

Post by kpennell »

jdminhbg wrote: post #226
kpennell wrote: post #11

I'm not sure how I got sucked into Tiktok but I was quickly hooked. There's something so refreshingly playful, authentic, and raw about so much Tiktok content compared to Instagram. Instagram (explore/discovery) is generally pretty people with pretty things in pretty places. That was fun for a while but it's just not that interesting after a while. I don't need to see more pretty pictures of women doing yoga. I don't…

> Tiktok, on the other hand, is playful, diverse, and interesting (at least my feed is). Once you start liking content, the feed completely changes from teenage lip sync videos or other teenager-oriented content into such a nice variety of content. I legitimately laugh my ass off or smile happily at so much of it. Other content teaches me about food, gardening, dancing, DIY, media theory, hiking alone, gender bending…

make an account, start marking things as not interested, including songs (you have to tap and hold to see this on android)

push like on the stuff you do.

Re: The TikTok War

#349

Post by streb-lo »

billjings wrote: post #345
analyte123 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. To be popular on Tiktok you actually have to do stuff (even it's fairly banal like dancing or telling stories), not just be (or pretend to be) someone. I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values l…

"I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values like the free flow of information on the internet by...making Apple and Google remove Tiktok from people's phones." This is what the posted article is about. I cannot write a rebuttal to this that is better than what Ben Thompson wrote, and I won't. The section "A Reluctant Prescription" section is directly about this. I can rebut this,…

I find it very hard to believe they don't promote content intended to elicit an emotional response to drive engagement in China the same way they do everywhere else.

Re: The TikTok War

#350

Post by dzhiurgis »

dirtyid wrote: post #228
analyte123 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something about Tiktok, whether the algorithm or the sheer volume of content, seems to discourage the sort of look-at-me envy-bait narcissistic posturing that is so common on Instagram. To be popular on Tiktok you actually have to do stuff (even it's fairly banal like dancing or telling stories), not just be (or pretend to be) someone. I found it funny that the author of this post is trying to defend liberal values l…

>Why is this? I replied to the parent comment by accident, but: That's the kind of content that survives the crucibles of Chinese censorship, "Creative and Joyful" opiate for the masses. This is an often overlooked aspect of Chinese social media / content filtering philosophy that has coalesced over time - block out the bad and divisive while elevating mundane joys. It's how the 50c operates, it floods the airwaves w…

I see plenty conspiracy theories, pseudoscience and quack medicine on TikTok. Way way way more than on other platforms. Less of traditional politics, blm and similar stuff tho.
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