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Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

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Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#341

Post by huonpine »

grecy wrote: post #291
51Cards wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Penny rounding was supposed to balance out, with 0.01 and 0.02 rounding down to 0.00 and 0.03 and 0.04 rounding up to 0.05. In theory it balances out. I don't think even adjusting your prices to get "in my favour" rounding would make that much of a difference as it's on the final total, not per item.

When Australia dropped their $0.01 coin in 1992 they originally went with "nearest rounding" i.e. 0.01 and 0.02 go down, 0.03 and 0.04 go up. That only lasted a few years until they changed it to always "round up" - i.e. it always goes up to 0.05. For what it's worth, dropping the $0.01 coin is great, every time I'm in the US I try to avoid them like the plague.

That's not true its still rounded down. https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/rounding-and-eftpos-tr...

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#342

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

ciceryadam wrote: post #283
bdowling wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes are computed at the cashier because tax rates vary from state to state and city to city. If sales taxes were uniform then we would see more advertised prices including tax. One exception is in advertised gasoline prices, which usually include all the taxes, including sales tax and special gasoline taxes.

But why is it possible for gasoline, and not for other items?

Gas stations sell 1 product, whose price changes daily.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#343

Post by rrrrrrrrrrrryan »

horsawlarway wrote: post #167
berbec wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how do I know when my Mustang hits 88 bald eagle wingspan per Budweisercan?

Because I found it entertaining - If we assume it takes about 15 seconds to chug a bud, and that an eagle's wingspan is about 6ft, this leads to 528ft/15s, or ~24Mph. Either you need a faster car, you chug your beer quickly, or you grow some oversized eagles.

15 seconds to chug a bud is an eternity.

I choose to assume the man meant what he said, has a slowish car that can only hit 75mph, but can chug a beer in a respectable 5 seconds.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#344

Post by arcticbull »

nayuki wrote: post #90
UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #5

Yes. Canada stopped producing pennies in the fall of 2012. [0] The sky didn't fall. There was no great debate, no public opinion polls and politicians swearing heartily about the demise of our great nation. (Ok that's probably not true. For too many politicians that's all they do.) There was resistance when Canada dropped the $1 bill in favour of a Loonie (a $1 coin with the image of a loon on it). People bitched abo…

> Since Canada changed but left the taxes the same (14% in Ontario IIRC) there seems to be a lot of rounding-off in favour of companies instead of consumers. $0.01-$0.02 per transaction This assertion is wrong. If the item you buy is $1.00, then after your 14% tax it will be $1.14, which is rounded up to $1.15. If the item is $2.00, then after tax it is $2.28, which also rounds up to $2.30. But if the item is $3.00,…

Correct, the process is "cash rounding" or "Swedish rounding" and all the details are here [1] for all the major countries that do it. In Canada:

- Prices are rounded down to the nearest multiple of 5 cents for sales ending in: 1¢ & 2¢ (rounded to 0¢); and 6¢ & 7¢ (rounded to 5¢).

- Prices are rounded up to the nearest multiple of 5 cents for sales ending in: 3¢ & 4¢ (round to 5¢); and 8¢ & 9¢ (round to 10¢).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_rounding#Rounding_with_0....

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#345

Post by mandelbrotwurst »

roywiggins wrote: post #231
Pamar wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, this... I am European and during my brief stay in the USA the fact that taxes were added at the cashier was awkward. I am sure you had your reasons and if you grow up in that sustem you won't notice much, but it looks a bit counterintuitive to foreigners.

It's insisted upon by anti-tax advocates, so that Americans always get reminded about exactly how much the government is adding onto the price. Otherwise, the theory goes, we would get too happy about taxes.

Being in favor of transparency in taxation isn't the same as being "anti-tax".

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#346

Post by arcticbull »

crdrost wrote: post #180
Loughla wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of what the practice is in Canada, I have zero faith in literally any US business to round down on anything, at anytime, for any reason at all. It will, I guarantee, be round up on everything.

Note that you can also, while you're at it, abolish rounding. You already have this in some sense on gas pumps: the price advertised has taxes included so you are not always playing guess-the-final-total with your money. Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included. If there are special circumstances that might make certain people exempt from a tax --…

> Just pass a law that requires fair advertising of the actual amount the purchaser will pay, taxes etc. included.

"Just" anything in America is as OP pointed out an absolute nightmare left-vs-right debacle.

The "left" wants to have inclusive pricing for, as you point out, convenience and sanity while politicians on the "right" want to have taxes appended afterwards so that you are smacked in the face with how much the government is wasting your money every time you buy anything.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#347

Post by Blueskytech »

We shouldn't kill the penny because it is a reminder that our currency has been inflated and is no longer worth a small fraction of what it once was. Never forget that pre-1965 coinage besides the penny was made of 90 percent silver. A face value of 1.40 in pre-1965 dimes and quarters is worth 20.00 today, the fact that a penny, not even made of copper, is too expensive to make should be concerning.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#348

Post by arcticbull »

Blueskytech wrote: post #347

We shouldn't kill the penny because it is a reminder that our currency has been inflated and is no longer worth a small fraction of what it once was. Never forget that pre-1965 coinage besides the penny was made of 90 percent silver. A face value of 1.40 in pre-1965 dimes and quarters is worth 20.00 today, the fact that a penny, not even made of copper, is too expensive to make should be concerning.

(1) Inflation doesn't matter if you're not hoarding cash. By and large, real estate tracks inflation across the United States. Stock indices exceed inflation. Inflation doesn't matter to you if you aren't holding cash.

(2) It doesn't matter how we got here, we're here, and it's useless.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#349

Post by thaumasiotes »

tedunangst wrote: post #184
mark-r wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Practical reality" hasn't changed. There never was a way to pay anything with a fraction of a penny, even when cards made it theoretically possible. The final price just gets adjusted to a whole penny amount.

The US has minted half cent coins in the past.

A half cent coin doesn't provide a way to pay in increments of 0.1 cents.

Re: Is It Time to Kill the Penny?

#350

Post by jchook »

In Chile they have 1 peso pieces so small and light you can blow them from your hand like fairy dust.

The only stores that use them are big chains that operate on enormous economies of scale, e.g. Hiper Lider.

When backpacking there (on very little $) a homeless person asked me for some change. I dug into my pocket and offered him some change and he just lauuuughed at me.

Interestingly, $1 USD = ~800 Chilean pesos in 2020, but was over 2000 Chilean pesos in 2006.

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