Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

jsonline.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 604 posts

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#341

Post by xienze »

CathedralBorrow wrote: post #320
xienze wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Sort by deaths/1M. You’ll see the US doing better than UK, France, Belgium, Spain, Italy, etc. And in absolute terms, there’s still more cases and deaths in Europe as a whole (I find it funny that when it comes to GDP, we like to think of Europe as “United States of Europe”, but when talking about corona deaths, not so much).

I'm not sure who the 'we' is in this context, so I can't address that point. But my point was that picking a handful of countries and calling them Europe isn't very accurate at all.

I mean, put ALL European countries together and there’s way more deaths in total than the US, and I suspect the deaths/1M figure is very similar if not slightly higher than the US. Slice it however you want, the US is not doing that poorly relative to its peers in Europe.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#342

Post by ric2b »

roenxi wrote: post #265
techsupporter wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd still much rather live in America and get coronavirus rather than live in China and get black-bagged someday because of my refusal to take authorities seriously. At the risk of potentially misunderstanding what you meant, there's a yawning chasm between "freedom to die from COVID-19 because public health orders are affronts to liberty" and "extra-judicially kidnapped by one's own government." I'd much rather li…

> I'd much rather live in Sweden or Germany, where people have sufficient trust in their government... I'm a bit hesitant to compare to either of them because I can't read the local news. That being said, didn't Sweden go with a lockdown-lite policy? The Sweedes do have the freedom to die from COVID-19 because public health orders are affronts to their liberty. EDIT And the lockdowns are threatening something like 26…

They have the freedom to but most are still staying at home. The economic impact is similar, cinemas are closed, concerts are cancelled, etc.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#343

Post by throwaway_pdp09 »

stevesimmons wrote: post #333
r_c_a_d wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the daily briefings are good. It's not just a politician talking; it's a politician flanked by two scientists or public health experts. The politician explains what is going on and the experts explain why, with data. This is the first time in my life I can remember politicians so publicly deferring to experts with evidence.

The daily briefings are pure PR and political spin. "Protect the NHS" ffs.. how about protect the population? The politicians aren't deferring to experts with evidence. They are setting up the experts to be the fallguys for their political missteps. "We were just following the science" is their excuse when held to account for poorly executed political actions.

Although I wrote the original comment criticising the UK daily briefing, I really disagree badly here.

> "Protect the NHS" ffs.. how about protect the population?

protecting the NHS IS protecting the population. If you have a better idea of how to protect the population - note that we have had nearly 2 months of government-mandated lockdown based on scientific advice (though taken too late) - then suggest it.

> The politicians aren't deferring to experts with evidence

Yes they are, finally.

> They are setting up the experts to be the fallguys

No they're not and they know it wouldn't work anyway.

I tried to make a justified criticism but yours is just plain destructive cynicism.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#344

Post by wonderwonder »

RickJWagner wrote: post #311
threeseed wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about one of the most similar countries to the US ? Australian deaths per million = 3.92 US deaths per million = 228.5 And the US number is likely to go to 500 in the next two months whilst in some Australia states it looks like COVID-19 is fully eradicated.

Per today's RealClearPolitics chart: US 260 deaths per million UK 499 France 404 Netherlands 322 Germany (Kudos!) 94.8 The US is not doing badly at all.

South Korea: 5.07 deaths per million Population of ~51 million First case on the same day as us. Democratic government.

This is who we should be comparing ourselves too, not just choosing some random countries that are doing worse than us.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#345

Post by ric2b »

rubidium wrote: post #274
techsupporter wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd still much rather live in America and get coronavirus rather than live in China and get black-bagged someday because of my refusal to take authorities seriously. At the risk of potentially misunderstanding what you meant, there's a yawning chasm between "freedom to die from COVID-19 because public health orders are affronts to liberty" and "extra-judicially kidnapped by one's own government." I'd much rather li…

Most people I’ve talked to pushing for government to reopen things have lost jobs and businesses... or are about to. Their basic survival needs are being threatened. Show a little more compassion. I recommend talking to some people instead of parroting the pictures you see in the news.

But the solution is a stronger welfare system, like a UBI, not forcing people to work while risking their lives or go without food.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#346

Post by mehrdadn »

rubidium wrote: post #274
techsupporter wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd still much rather live in America and get coronavirus rather than live in China and get black-bagged someday because of my refusal to take authorities seriously. At the risk of potentially misunderstanding what you meant, there's a yawning chasm between "freedom to die from COVID-19 because public health orders are affronts to liberty" and "extra-judicially kidnapped by one's own government." I'd much rather li…

Most people I’ve talked to pushing for government to reopen things have lost jobs and businesses... or are about to. Their basic survival needs are being threatened. Show a little more compassion. I recommend talking to some people instead of parroting the pictures you see in the news.

So at the risk of asking a dumb question: why aren't protesters demanding e.g. more economic aid instead of a reopening? It's not like giving money to people in this crisis is a taboo anymore... it was one thing both the Congress and the White House agreed on for once. And it's not like if everything reopens then they're going to be instantly back in business. A lot of people will still stay home anyway. Wouldn't it be a lot more logical to demand payments or some other form of direct aid so that they can actually survive both economically and medically? Instead of making it a zero-sum game demanding everyone trade off a dubious-at-best chance at economic survival for a far more certain chance of a public health crisis (if not worse)?

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#347

Post by HideousKojima »

2rsf wrote: post #334
dtwest wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we compare Wisconsin to Sweden? The article is about Wisconsin. Wisconsin (pop 5.8 mil, 10.6k cases, 418 deaths). Sweden (pop 10.2 mil, 27.9k cases, 3460 deaths).

How about Oman ? pop 4.829 million, 4,019 cases with only 17 deaths. Or Belgium that does have quarantine rules but still have more cases of deaths. It's not a game, and we don't fully understand how this works so maybe we should stop comparing.

If we're talking about efficacy of government lockdown policies, universal healthcare, etc., then we absolutely should compare. And a cursory glance at the data suggests that government lockdown policies have minimal effect on the spread of the virus, there seems to be little to no correlation between severity of lockdown and cases/deaths

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#348

Post by ric2b »

dtwest wrote: post #296
CathedralBorrow wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim. Do you mind showing your work? What do the statistics say about Europe vs. US? I see you mentioned Sweden and Germany but Europe has many more countries than those two.

If you add together UK, Spain, and Italy they have more deaths than the US as a whole. https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data

You just went and cherry-picked 3 of the most impacted countries in Europe, not very convincing.

I can just as easily pick 3 of the least and tell you a completely different story.

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#349

Post by HideousKojima »

101404 wrote: post #302
ginko wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English speaking, lots of space, common law..

Ah yes, because language is the most important reason to get an infectious disease... Am I here on HN or in r/worldnews?

Maybe they think Coronavirus is caused by the vocal chord parasites from Metal Gear Solid 5

Re: Wisconsin Supreme Court strikes down stay-at-home order that closed businesses

#350

Post by dtwest »

magicalhippo wrote: post #325
dtwest wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden has 342 COVID deaths per million. The US has 254 deaths per million. Germany is doing better, but the rest of Western Europe has much higher rates of death than the US. There seems to be a myth going around that Europe is handling this better than the US and the statistics don't really support that claim. If you have to bash Golden Corral to make your claim, you're probably a bit biased against Americans. That…

> the rest of Western Europe has much higher rates of death than the US Or not, depending on country. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-daily-covid-deaths-... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-daily-covid-deaths-... https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-daily-covid-deaths-... Norway and Sweden are in other measures very similar countries. We lie right next to each other, we have quite similar politic…

I agree Norway has been a bright spot. If Norway was a US state, it would be ranked 14th in deaths per capita. So better than average. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covi...

I'm completely aware that there are different countries in Europe that have different strategies for containing this thing. But so do the states in the US.

Post reply on HN