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Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

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Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#341

Post by joncrane »

incognito_limey wrote: post #301
ratww wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been explained that this is because those computers might need more power than the AC Charger is able to provide, so the battery is also used as a "backup" for burst loads. This [1] seems to confirm it. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20081225111200/http://support.ap...

Thanks for the info. I recently discovered this by running folding at home on my 16inch pro overnight, and waking up to my battery being at 5%. I suspect running the CPU full bore over night was too much for the charger to keep up with.

Isn't this bad design? Surely if plugged in, you should be able to use everything on your laptop at 100% utilization (screen, CPU, disks, fans, etc) without having to worry about it.

Otherwise, what's the point of having those things?

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#342

Post by cb22 »

mjayhn wrote: post #333
cb22 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give some numbers to the comment I made previously in this thread, with an XPS 7390 2-in-1: Single core turbo 3.9GHz, maintains indefinitely, temperature hovers around ~75 degrees, fans around 5000RPM All core turbo: Keeps 3.4GHz and ~45W TDP for around 10 seconds, before dropping to 2.7GHz and ~25W TDP indefinitely. Temps still around ~75, with the fans around 8000 RPM. That's without any undervolting, but with t…

This is Ice Lake?

Ice Lake, yeah. It's the i7 1065G7 [1]

[1] https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196597/...

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#343

Post by emilecantin »

sschueller wrote: post #258
philwelch wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This probably goes hand in hand with the unremovable batteries. Back when they had removable batteries you could run it on AC with no battery installed and it would work fine.

Someone remind me why the batteries are no longer removable? Macbooks aren't water tight. Oh right, the laptop looks pretty and the battery can't be fitted in one area without adding some thickness. Im so sick over this form over function crap that everyone copies.

Having opened both my 2008 Macbook (with removable battery) and my current 2015 Macbook Pro (with non-removable battery), it's easy to see why: the 2015's battery is actually 4 different batteries of varying sizes & shapes. It's taking most of the space inside the computer that isn't taken by the motherboard (about half, actually).

Making stuff removable is a lot more work; you have to build a way to hold the thing while it's on, you have to put in connectors, etc. With non-removable batteries they can just glue them on & solder the wires.

Not really saying it's a good thing, but I understand the decision.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#344

Post by steelframe »

joncrane wrote: post #341
incognito_limey wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the info. I recently discovered this by running folding at home on my 16inch pro overnight, and waking up to my battery being at 5%. I suspect running the CPU full bore over night was too much for the charger to keep up with.

Isn't this bad design? Surely if plugged in, you should be able to use everything on your laptop at 100% utilization (screen, CPU, disks, fans, etc) without having to worry about it. Otherwise, what's the point of having those things?

I suspect this is due to USB-C providing a maximum power of 100 watts. This was a classic design trade off. “We can support an industry standard and thus allow ubiquitously available chargers to be used with the device, with the trade off being that the chargers can’t keep up when the device is run continuously at full throttle.”

Then it’s a question of how many are impacted and how often, how support for USB-C factors in to the decision to purchase, etc., etc.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#345

Post by leetcrew »

jb775 wrote: post #233
leetcrew wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

check out this teardown of the new 16" macbook pro: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+16-Inch+2019+Tea... everything inside the chassis that isnt pcb, heatpipe, or fan is part of the battery pack. it takes up almost all the otherwise unused space inside the device. how would you design a battery door for this chassis that doesn't decrease the size of the battery or make the whole thing much bigger?

I know it would never happen, but I'd be ok with the battery pack living outside of the laptop itself, almost like an external hard-drive you plug in via USB-C. Could probably install a mount on the back of the screen it could clip onto. My main point is that I'd enjoy the ability to cut full power to my device at my discretion. I've never been a fan of all the Mac background activity when I close my screen (auto-dow…

I understand why you would want this, but obviously apple is never going to let something this ugly wear its logo. maybe if enough people demanded it, they could add a physical battery disconnect switch on the bottom as a $1000 option.

as I said before though, laptops with removable batteries are still being made by companies like lenovo. windows is not great if you're a paranoid person, but thinkpads usually play nicely with linux. if you're willing to carry around a laptop with an external battery pack and clip it onto the back of your screen, I feel like you should be willing to deal with setting up linux on a laptop ;)

edit: I'm actually not sure there are any current gen thinkpads with fully removable batteries. truly a sad day. you might be limited to enormous gaming laptops.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#346

Post by JamesMcMinn »

supernova87a wrote: post #223
copperx wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most irritating thing about the iPhone. Phone shuts down in the middle of an important call? Sorry, you'll have to wait 15 minutes before you can call again. This doesn't happen in my Pixel phones. Plug it it, turn it on. I would be irritated to no end if this happened to my laptop.

Well here's the challenging thing -- your phone may be way overdue for a battery replacement, or you've run your phone like this well over the average user -- so it's been doing this to save you from having no phone at all. But you don't credit Apple with the 2nd part, and blame it for the 1st part. It's tough to make something for customers, huh? Not making a personal jab at you -- just illustrating the difficultly…

I'm not certain that's a valid argument - if anything it's rather "apologist".

They are annoyed because the phone is unusable for a period even when connected to a charger. Every Android phone I have ever used will work immediately after being plugged into a charger (even without a battery). This has nothing to do with "saving" them from having no phone (in fact, it effectively leaves them with no phone at all for a period of time), and everything to do with the phones inability to power itself directly from a charger.

Tough to make something for customers? Perhaps, but seemingly every other phone manufacturer gets this right.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#347

Post by rpastuszak »

o_x wrote: post #296
sudhirj wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably more to do with FAA regulations than anything else. You can't put more than a 100W batter in a laptop, and the charger is 100W (96W, I think), but modern processors and GPUs need more than that at full speed with all cores, leave along fans and SSDs and screens. My similarly specced desktop runs at 400W, not including the monitor. So yeah, we seem to have hit a limit with traditional chipsets. Probably why A…

I believe the frustration is more due to the fact that even though the laptop is plugged in, the battery gets drained and after a while, it will simply shut down. I have had that issue with 2012 15 inch, 2016 15 inch, 2017 15 inch and heard similar stories from 16inch users. Reminds me of the early brick-sized mobile phones. Sure you could be wireless, but if you wanted to use it more than few minutes, you had to fin…

I still find this a bit peculiar, I haven't experienced that in any of my previous machines, mac or not.

Normally, I'd call customer support and assume it's an issue with my device specifically. HN saved me a bunch of annoying phone calls.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#348

Post by mrfusion »

wrs wrote: post #42

I've noticed that on newer (past few years) MacBook Pros, if their battery runs down too far they refuse to start up, even when plugged into the charger. The battery has to charge for 10-15 minutes with the "dead battery" icon on the screen. It's exactly the same behavior as iPhone/iPad. In past MacBook models, the battery could be dead--or even completely removed--and the charger would power the laptop fine. Anyone…

Mine started freezing lately if I run graphic intensive programs and hangs on a gray screen when trying to restart. I wonder if the battery could be the issue.

Re: Apple changes default MacBook charging behavior to improve battery health

#349

Post by Shish2k »

joncrane wrote: post #341
incognito_limey wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the info. I recently discovered this by running folding at home on my 16inch pro overnight, and waking up to my battery being at 5%. I suspect running the CPU full bore over night was too much for the charger to keep up with.

Isn't this bad design? Surely if plugged in, you should be able to use everything on your laptop at 100% utilization (screen, CPU, disks, fans, etc) without having to worry about it. Otherwise, what's the point of having those things?

> Isn't this bad design?

It’s a trade-off - they COULD build a laptop which can run everything at 100% 24/7 indefinitely, but it’d be heavier and more expensive, with zero benefits to their target audience of "people who only run at 100% for a few hours per day"

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