Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers • Hacker News Board

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#341

Post by d--b » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #340

d--b wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, well, depends what you call diversity. In the US, it generally means racial diversity. Sure Switzerland has a lot of European people from various countries. But it is nonetheless a very white country... I'm just saying that writing that Switzerland is more diverse than Silicon Valley is ridiculous.

That's a very superficial measure of diversity. There's a lot more to a person than the color of their skin. It makes no sense to apply that extremely narrow definition of diversity to a European country, or even to the US.

Yes, I am kind of simply stating what people imply when they say diversity.

For most people a group of 3 people: one Chinese, one Egyptian, and one Columbian is a culturally more diverse (my definition), than a group of Germans, Austrian, French, Belgians and Dutch...

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#342

Post by GFischer » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 6:17 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #278

cactus2093 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this article is interesting. Cost of housing is basically being described as as high as the Bay Area, but the salaries sound quite a bit lower. Junior devs in SF are making maybe $110-130k, vs 60-90 that the article claims in switzerland. Senior devs are making maybe $180-220k, plus more in stock options/RSUs (which despite the negative reaction to them here on HN, actually do often turn into real money at least…

A hypothesis I've not tested: salaries are adjusted for risk. European countries have strong labour protections so hiring parties must take on hires at high risk if they don't perform (can't fire them easily). Initial evidence for hypothesis: contractors and freelancers working locally in these countries still have high incomes.

That must be it, the best salary offer I got in Austria was about 4000 euros a month.

My brother in law moved to Silicon Valley because he had a very low salary ceiling in Vienna.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#343

Post by GFischer » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 6:18 PM UTC

balfirevic wrote: post #170

rmah wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50 sq m is 500 sq ft, which is considered very small in most of the US and on the small end even in NYC. It's just slightly larger than a mobile home.

That's interesting. It is considered a very decent size for a single person or even a couple where I live (Croatia). But then again, I grew up in a family of five in a 45 square meter apartment.

It's decent here in Uruguay (South America) too.

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#344

Post by alexis_fr » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 7:21 PM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #278

cactus2093 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this article is interesting. Cost of housing is basically being described as as high as the Bay Area, but the salaries sound quite a bit lower. Junior devs in SF are making maybe $110-130k, vs 60-90 that the article claims in switzerland. Senior devs are making maybe $180-220k, plus more in stock options/RSUs (which despite the negative reaction to them here on HN, actually do often turn into real money at least…

A hypothesis I've not tested: salaries are adjusted for risk. European countries have strong labour protections so hiring parties must take on hires at high risk if they don't perform (can't fire them easily). Initial evidence for hypothesis: contractors and freelancers working locally in these countries still have high incomes.

In all honesty, skills could be another factor. Although we have many extremely competent people, the general job market in France for example doesn’t require very advanced technical skills. I compare to Sydney where, with 4 years experience in France and with credentials, I wasn’t up to the game. Sydney people, for example, are extremely skilled.

So we must not throw away the skills factor, the ability of employees to build an extremely successful company, their motivations, their awareness of new business practices, although it is very difficult to measure it. Perhaps France is ahead (after all, a lot of Linux is European, along with DailyMotion and others), perhaps it is not (...after all, DailyMotion only got the second seat and is now dwarfed by Youtube).

Re: Switzerland vs Silicon Valley for Software Developers

#345

Post by alexis_fr » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

0xffff2 wrote: post #203

victor106 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Positively, I work from home. I have four providers I could get 1Gbps symmetrical, unmetered, business-class FTTH for less than 100,- CHF / month. It's hard to go wrong with that. I pay 79.99 USD a month for Verizon Fios 1 gbps in nyc. That is before a $200.00 credit. Fios is FTTH. That’s a good 20-25% discount to what you pay in Switzerland. Plus I heard from several colleagues and friends who are people of color…

Meanwhile I pay $80/month for 12Mbs cable from Comcast in Silicon Valley. My only other option is DSL. I'm not going to be moving to Switzerland any time soon, but the internet situation in the US is spotty and inconsistent at best.

20€/month for 1Gbps in France. In big cities only - in smaller cities you might get 200Mbps.