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NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

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Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#341

Post by mistermann »

kleer001 wrote: post #238
themgt wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is, our political and corporate elites made a deal with the devil two decades ago, because the $ to be made off-shoring manufacturing and gaining access to Chinese markets was too good to pass up. They lied to the public that China posed no economic or military threat going forward, and that our glorious free markets would inevitably lead to a bottom-up liberalization of China. Instead, we've played ourse…

20 years ago? I'd pin it on Nixon's visit in 1972, nearly 50 years ago. Without that I'd bet China would have civil warred and bootstrapped its self into Democracy.

Acceptance into the WTO in 2001 and the subsequent mass technology transfer from the West to China (corporate CEO's) combined with a decade of turning a blind eye to trade violations (Western politicians) and lack of monitoring (Western corporate media) is what really put the nail in the West's coffin though.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#342

Post by tzm »

tw04 wrote: post #20

The NBA really needs to grow a spine on this one. They have nothing to lose but incremental profits and in the long run China will lose. It will just be one more reminder for the populace that their current government restricts them from luxuries the rest of the world gets to experience. And if that doesn't bother them, good riddance I guess, it's not like China is going to come up with their own basketball league th…

Agreed. From my view, the NBA is way too popular in China to outright ban.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#343

Post by megaremote »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #19
ticmasta wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we saw with the USSR that decades of Cold War couldn't be defused politically but Levis and Coca Cola went a long way towards bridging the divide. Now we have China which is basketball-mad but the problem is we can't use the carrot of the NBA to entice them towards us as long as the NBA is willing to trade their product under China's terms for a big enough paycheque. The NBA's attempt to paint themselves as a n…

The NBA is about basketball, not about something that is quickly turning into McCarthyism. Demanding that they should 'stand for something' is behaving exactly how China and Chinese companies are accused of behaving. The concept of "enticing China towards the US" is also naive at best. China is not a small country that the US can turn into a satellite. It is a superpower with its own views and interests and however i…

Ok, fair. But how about them being free to not interfere with what their players and managers support?

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#344

Post by Lukeas14 »

cylinder wrote: post #327
xlc0212 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have nothing to lose but incremental profits and in the long run China will lose. I don’t understand this. They could lost all their market in China which is not a small number and in return, long-term financially, nothing. It is not like Chinese people can’t live without it. There are more than enough entertainments for Chinese people to enjoy.

People need to stop talking about China like it's a single unit and the government can control every single thing its people do. They threatened certain countries and yet tourist and student arrivals from China only increased. If they block NBA Chinese fans will still find a way to consume it.

They'll find a way to consume it. But the NBA will probably make much more money through legitimate products in China than if Chinese fans are watching pirated streams over VPN and buying counterfeit, unlicensed jerseys.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#345

Post by mistermann »

libertine wrote: post #120

This reminds me of a story a teacher of mine told in a Advertising class, about a retailer that put pressure on a soda maker to lower prices, or they wouldn't give them share of shelf. Well the soda maker didn't agree, so they pulled the inventory out. Weeks later the retailer came back to invite them in at the same rates. Apparently the customers weren't happy that their favorite soda wasn't available, and made sure…

I recommend that Western people who get their facts about China from various mainstream media supplement that with subscribing to YouTube channels of Westerners who actually live there.

This guy is a regular every day Canadian with a Chinese wife who's lived there on and off for 13 or so years, and he has a very unbiased opinion.

This episode is about Chinese Patriotism, very thought provoking.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hPovk2CNKHM

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#346

Post by oarabbus_ »

fooblitzky wrote: post #333
oarabbus_ wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Adam Silver wrote a statement supporting Morey's right to free speech, and then doubled down on it after receiving flak for his free speech support.

I think the point was the NBA needs to take a stance on HK itself, in support of democracy. "We support free speech" is a cop-out, because China is happy for you to support free speech, as long as you don't say anything they don't like. It would be a stronger stance to say, "Actually, we think Morey was right", especially if it's going to cost them money to do so.

> Adam Silver has released statement on league’s relationship status with China, reading in part: “The NBA will not put itself in a position of regulating what players, employees and team owners say or will not say on these issues. We simply could not operate that way.”

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1181497808563658752

Really I don't know what more you're expecting. This is a strong stance.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#347

Post by wbl »

themgt wrote: post #184
SilasX wrote: post #147

Is it just me, or are there a lot of stories now about China throwing its financial weight around to influence speech? We had the Blizzard/War of Omens thing [1], and the Houston Rockets remark being rescinded [2], and the South Park cancellation [3], and now this, all in the span of about a week. [1] https://www.cnet.com/news/blizzard-removes-blitzchung-from-h... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/07/houston-rockets-g…

The reality is, our political and corporate elites made a deal with the devil two decades ago, because the $ to be made off-shoring manufacturing and gaining access to Chinese markets was too good to pass up. They lied to the public that China posed no economic or military threat going forward, and that our glorious free markets would inevitably lead to a bottom-up liberalization of China. Instead, we've played ourse…

Billions of people got lifted out of poverty. WTO accession was inevitable because China met the criteria. Trump hasn't done anything close to industrial policy. I say this as someone who has a lot of criticisms of US policy in this area, but WTO accession was inevitable.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#348

Post by davidw »

johnchristopher wrote: post #288
davidw wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a company has to do layoffs because they're doing something "wrong", I'm fine with that. The toxic waste thing is just a simple example. I think there should be policies in place to help people who lose their jobs for whatever reason.

> If a company has to do layoffs because they're doing something "wrong", I'm fine with that. The toxic waste thing is just a simple example. But the company doing the layoff isn't the same as the company doing the "wrong" thing. Think of the guy selling burgers in front of the stadium not meeting the quota because ticket prices surged and less people buy burgers or the bar owner selling less drinks because suddenly…

It's impossible to predict exactly what happens where in a complex market economy, but yes, there could certainly be 'collateral damage', just as there could be indirect effects from ending pollution, or saving an endangered species or any number of other things.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#349

Post by the_watcher »

PenguinCoder wrote: post #323
xlc0212 wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have nothing to lose but incremental profits and in the long run China will lose. I don’t understand this. They could lost all their market in China which is not a small number and in return, long-term financially, nothing. It is not like Chinese people can’t live without it. There are more than enough entertainments for Chinese people to enjoy.

At the rate they're making money (NBA), why does ADDITIONAL PROFIT matter ? We aren't 'the ferangi'; people are more important than profits, but American corporations seem to have ignored or forgotten that. Screw NBA market share, or financial well-being. Democracy and human rights are vastly more important!

NOTE: I think this has been handled incredibly poorly by the NBA and that Morey should have doubled down on his tweet, not caved.

That said, the reason additional profits matter is that 51% of the revenue (not profits) go to the players, and the salary cap is tied directly to total revenue. This was collectively bargained and cannot be changed without a renegotiation. A lot of decisions have been made making assumptions about revenue that include revenue from China. On the player side, the total amount of money available to them is directly impacted by how much money is generated in China.

All that said, the NBA and the players should absolutely speak out and dare the CCP to delete the NBA. It's the most popular sport in the country and they've spent years cultivating the relationship. People will notice if it disappears.

Re: NBA's China dilemma: $4B at risk as Chinese TV cancels game broadcasts

#350

Post by the_watcher »

danem wrote: post #58
tw04 wrote: post #20

The NBA really needs to grow a spine on this one. They have nothing to lose but incremental profits and in the long run China will lose. It will just be one more reminder for the populace that their current government restricts them from luxuries the rest of the world gets to experience. And if that doesn't bother them, good riddance I guess, it's not like China is going to come up with their own basketball league th…

> it's not like China is going to come up with their own basketball league that's going to overtake the NBA, ever. Why not? Is it inconceivable that in the future the CBA will be able to compete with the NBA for top talent? I guarantee that down the road a future Zion Williamson will choose to play in China over New Orleans. This won't be in the near future mind you, but as the Chinese economy grows, and as basketbal…

"Future Zion Williamson"'s have chosen to play in China over the NCAA already. The ones who have all spoke about the culture shock and language barriers and how it impeded their development. The Australian leagues seem far more likely to carve out an early career role for American high school stars.
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