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Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

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Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#341

Post by _v7gu »

burneraccount12 wrote: post #295

Dating threads on HN honestly could be confused for incel message boards on Reddit. Some real quotes from this thread: 1. "As a male, it becomes very difficult to stand out if you are actually interested in someone." 2. "I know a few women that use Tinder: they are alone, late thirties and never got anything serious out of Tinder, but they use it to reassure their attractiveness" 3. "Bumble's rule is that Men are not…

Aren't burner accounts supposed to be for punching up, or "speaking truth to power"? You're punching down on people in a very vulnerable position, the least you could do is maybe not thinking about your reputation while doing it?

To actually contribute something in this comment, Scott Alexander has a great article about this topic and as with everything he writes, it is a great read even if you're not very interested in the topic.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/31/radicalizing-the-roman...

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#342

Post by burneraccount12 »

ninkendo wrote: post #307
burneraccount12 wrote: post #295

Dating threads on HN honestly could be confused for incel message boards on Reddit. Some real quotes from this thread: 1. "As a male, it becomes very difficult to stand out if you are actually interested in someone." 2. "I know a few women that use Tinder: they are alone, late thirties and never got anything serious out of Tinder, but they use it to reassure their attractiveness" 3. "Bumble's rule is that Men are not…

This is one of the most flamebait comments I’ve seen in this board, so I’ve flagged it. You’re putting words in a lot of people’s mouths and assuming a lot of things about large swaths of this forum (that we all have terrible social skills/are out of shape/etc) based on comments about the business practices of dating apps. You seemed to know this by making a throwaway account, but next time why not just not comment a…

> You’re putting words in a lot of people’s mouths

Uh, I literally copied-and-pasted exact quotes from the thread.

> that we all have terrible social skills/are out of shape/etc)

Where did I say that? Everyone can be in better shape. And everyone can improve their social skills. Saying you could be healthier and have more hobbies does not mean you are not in shape and do not have hobbies, you're making a big leap in logic.

And I comment because the amount of misogyny in this thread is both staggering and disturbing. If the comments here are a representative sample of attitudes among tech workers I would be concerned to be a woman working in this field.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#343

Post by burneraccount12 »

dx87 wrote: post #320
burneraccount12 wrote: post #295

Dating threads on HN honestly could be confused for incel message boards on Reddit. Some real quotes from this thread: 1. "As a male, it becomes very difficult to stand out if you are actually interested in someone." 2. "I know a few women that use Tinder: they are alone, late thirties and never got anything serious out of Tinder, but they use it to reassure their attractiveness" 3. "Bumble's rule is that Men are not…

OkCupid did a study on online dating, and men really do get the short end of the stick. They found that when a group of women have their attractivness rated by men, the results fit a bell curve where most women are considered average, and few are very attractive or unattractive. When they asked women to rate men, the results fit a negative exponential model. The majority of men were considered very unattractive, fewe…

Have you talked to many single women and asked them what their dating experiences are like?

Are there large groups of single women out there who think online dating is amazing, wonderful, everything they ever wanted?

I encourage you to ask some single women about their dating experiences and see if it matches up with your assumption from reading an OkCupid (marketing) study.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#344

Post by burneraccount12 »

tictok4 wrote: post #300
burneraccount12 wrote: post #295

Dating threads on HN honestly could be confused for incel message boards on Reddit. Some real quotes from this thread: 1. "As a male, it becomes very difficult to stand out if you are actually interested in someone." 2. "I know a few women that use Tinder: they are alone, late thirties and never got anything serious out of Tinder, but they use it to reassure their attractiveness" 3. "Bumble's rule is that Men are not…

>If you want to improve your dating prospects, get in shape. Anyone can get in shape, doesn't matter how rich or successful or handsome your face is. >Second, improve your social skills / join something. Yes to both of these. Dating or not these are vital in life.

This is one of the only non-misogynistic responses to my comment (IMHO).

If you're healthy and have hobbies and socialize regularly finding a romantic partner is not only easier but also less important because you have a rich and fulfilling life.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#345

Post by mcv »

akuji1993 wrote: post #258
zapnuk wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the idea behind bumble. AFAIK men and women rate each other similarly to Tinder (yes/no). However, when a match occurs, women have to send the first message. This doesn't solve the gender inbalance though. This problem is much more difficult to solve, and requires further homogenization (?) of the male and female gender role. This should be one of the more important challenges of our time. Lonelyness and sexua…

The reality for someone like me, a very average looking guy, is then that I get zero messages. Doesn't really solve anything either.

Average looking shouldn't be a problem to most people. Just don't look for people who want to date models. Use a dating site that focuses on content and interest rather than looks. But even if you're somewhere where the initial decision has to be made based on a photo, you can make that photo interesting.

I met my wife on a dating site 13 years ago (a small, cheap one focused specifically on Christians), and although I probably had a profile with a whole supposedly-witty story about myself, the thing I remember is the photo; I used a photo from a recent vacation to Africa, with me selfie-style in front of the gate of Timbuctoo. Her first message to me included some reference to Ouagadougou, and that got the ball rolling. (Her photo was her on a sailing boat; also effective.)

Don't use a photo where you look average, use a photo where you do something interesting. That says more about you than a chiseled jaw line.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#346

Post by Blackstone4 »

brlewis wrote: post #334
Blackstone4 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bumble's rule is that Men are not even allowed to initiate contact. This is gender-based. Given everything else happening in the world around gender discrimination, I find it interesting that a discussion around Bumble's practises has not come up. Maybe it's because as humans we are not always internally consistent with how we apply our logic to the world.

Context matters. People concerned about gender discrimination aren't usually as concerned about distinctions drawn between genders when the context is ballroom dancing or weddings. They're almost always concerned when the context is employment. Somewhere in between you've got dating and religious rules.

A good point regarding context.

Gender-equality has been coming into religion (i.e. women bishops in the Church of England) and dating (i.e. splitting checks). Given the way things are trending, it feels like this will continue to the point that it will impact things such as ballroom dancing and weddings.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#347

Post by tdb7893 »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #337
tdb7893 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the inconsistency, are you saying that Bumble discriminates against men somehow? The issue for the people I've talked to is the underlying asymmetry in dating that leads to Bumble, not Bumble itself. Edit: essentially I don't understand how men are getting hurt by Bumble, I know a lot of people that prefer it to something like Tinder so maybe that skews my perspective.

I feel like in Western society, a certain narrative is being pushed that everyone should be treated equally regardless of gender (i.e. Wimbledon winners should get paid the same amount). From what I can tell, it is selectively being used by certain groups when it suits them to push their agenda. However when observing the real world, it is clear that people are not treated equally based on gender (i.e. Bumble, restro…

I think to understand your argument I would need to understand how you think Bumble is harming men. In my experience people generally care much more about situations where there is harm in the discrimination (there are so many better targets for energy is a waste). As someone who cares a lot about gender issues Bumble is a symptom of the problem but not problematic itself, why should I care?

Edit: you are talking about a whole generation but the people who are vocal about things like Bumble are a very very small minority and not really indicative of the movement at large in my experience.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#348

Post by toastal »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #98
toastal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People wanting to flatter themselves? The nerve. Get off your high horse.

You're missing the fact that deceptive profiles negatively impact the experiences of everyone they interact with. Robbery? People just want to enrich themselves. Rape? People just want to pleasure themselves. The nerve of society to criminalize these behaviors, we should all get the fuck off our collective high horses.

If you're going to say adjusting a photo angle is equivalent to rape, please never use a dating website.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#349

Post by mcv »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #340
abstractbarista wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Bumble's concept because it attempts to complete what feminism espouses. Aren't we all about empowering women, and how we can all be capable in the jobs we do, and the lives we lead? It's a great thing and I believe in it. But... Women collectively stopped short of picking up an equal responsibility for initiating romantic or casual interest. As a guy, you are absolutely expected to make the first moves. That…

I agree with people being empowered regardless of gender. However...imagine an app where only men could contact women. I feel like certain groups would be outraged....what do you think?

A big difference is that that app would double down on a specific gender-based inequality in dating, whereas an app that turns it around, subverts that traditional gender-based inequality. That is less sexist, and might indeed be more effective because of it. It forces women to take a more active role in dating when in traditional society, they're often expected to take a passive role.

So it doesn't confirm the sexism, it addresses and counters it.

If at some point in the future, it becomes expected that men take a passive role while women always take initiative, then your imagined app would be better because it would subvert that sexist expectation. It's all about context.

Ideally of course we should end up somewhere in the middle, where men and women are equal partners in the dating arena.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#350

Post by Blackstone4 »

tdb7893 wrote: post #347
Blackstone4 wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like in Western society, a certain narrative is being pushed that everyone should be treated equally regardless of gender (i.e. Wimbledon winners should get paid the same amount). From what I can tell, it is selectively being used by certain groups when it suits them to push their agenda. However when observing the real world, it is clear that people are not treated equally based on gender (i.e. Bumble, restro…

I think to understand your argument I would need to understand how you think Bumble is harming men. In my experience people generally care much more about situations where there is harm in the discrimination (there are so many better targets for energy is a waste). As someone who cares a lot about gender issues Bumble is a symptom of the problem but not problematic itself, why should I care? Edit: you are talking abo…

I never said it is harming men. I just said that the rules are gender-based. What made you think that?

I find it an interesting thought exercise to understand why society apply rules differently in certain situations. Context certainly plays an important role here and I feel like you made a good point around harm.

EDIT I feel like sometimes this is a sensitive topic to discuss broadly within Western society. From my end, I want to break things down to first principals and have a frank discussion. However I feel like certain elements within society would shoot down these kind of discussions since it threatens their ideology which is akin to a religion which cannot be questioned. I feel like I am going to get downvoted for saying this and I'm already negative on my karma for my other comments today...

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