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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#341

Post by glitchc »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #268
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

> not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision I think Monsieur Macron has put this onto the agenda when Libra was announced. I'm not disagreeing with the decision and have similar concerns as you, but I'm still uncertain whether the state should even have the ability to block these and other things in general. Most of all, I miss a British voice here (as, sadly, not very much longer an EU…

The primary purview of the state is geography (borders) and taxation (monetary policy). Allowing foreign money to be the primary medium of exchange directly challenges monetary policy.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#342

Post by samizdis »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #294
Hermel wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very typical German mindset. You implicitly assume that nothing good can come out of Libra so it should be banned from the beginning. The pragmatic approach is to wait and see what happens. Most likely, it won’t be as successful as you assume it will be. Also, there are plenty of other forms of private money out there that you don’t seem to have a problem with (e.g. credit cards), as well as foreign currenci…

Sorry, no. This is just reckless. I'm trying hard to assume good faith here. "Wait and see" is a good approach to see whether your new electric city bus line is working or whether people prefer your website logo in red. You can never, ever take back what became basic necessities on a nation level while being even remotely democratic. Once people have it, they won't give it back. And you seriously think Facebook is to…

If that is a typical German mindset it bodes well for the world. You make your points well.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#343

Post by yitchelle »

eastendguy wrote: post #330
ThomPete wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is notoriously anti credit cards so no surprise when it comes to them. Its a stupid move of course but my guess is that they are worried it will be successful and threaten the EURO.

Why is Germany (the state) "anti credit card"? It is accepted everywhere. You might mean that some Germans don't like CC and prefer cash for privacy reasons. But that is a personal decision.

When it is the majority of the population, it is beyond a personal decision.

This is just my personal observation. Among the western European countries, German has the smallest level of adoption of credit cards. The French, the Dutch, the Swedes etc love their cashless nature of credit cards, the Germans not so much.

Furthermore most of the credit cards offered by the German banks are actually debit cards.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#344

Post by aduitsis »

justinzollars wrote: post #195
aduitsis wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if "they" decide to do something with their currency, "you" would like to be able to opt out. So you position your interests outside theirs (correct me if I'm wrong). Fair enough, it's certainly your right. But in that light, what France and Germany are doing makes sense too. At the end of the day, they too have the right to protect their collective interests, correct? Or would you have them do something that goe…

I'm pro innovation! I can not understand why entrepreneurs have such targets on their back these days on hackernews.

Well, I do respect that, and being in favour of innovation is certainly desirable in many contexts.

On the second part of your comment: I suspect some tech companies were given a while lot of leeway in many aspects by society at large, because it was generally believed that they would act in a more responsible way. Now, we come to the realization that maybe some of that leeway was misplaced.

There's another HN article in the frontpage today that basically floats the idea that Big Tech is a menace to Democracy itself. I think that's partly the explanation why people (and nations in general) are so suspicious of Libra.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#345

Post by rainyMammoth »

As a European I'm very happy about this decision. I'm not against Cryptocurrencies but Libra is an attempt by some of the most corrupt and unethical entities in the world (Facebook,...) to control financial flows.

I can only hope other countries will follow soon.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#346

Post by jayd16 »

bko wrote: post #265
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

> Hey do you mind if we just skip the paperwork part and just control currency, while actually being a social media tech giant This is a gross mischaracterization of what Libra is. Libra is a token that's backed 1 to 1 on some basket of currencies and mostly government bonds. The Libra foundation makes money by taking a portion of the investment return to fund themselves, much like a brokerage takes a bit of the retu…

Then create a bank. But that's not what this is. They want to make a bank that prints its own currency and skips the paperwork needed for current monetary exchange. It's just as OP has said.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#347

Post by paulcarroty »

Typical government don't want:

* easy cross-country payments

* non-government money institutions

'Cause money always been the major element of government power.

For typical people, I think, Libra and similar are more positive. If you can pay someone in Africa from Japan with minimal fees/headache, it's very cool.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#348

Post by wil421 »

eastendguy wrote: post #330
ThomPete wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is notoriously anti credit cards so no surprise when it comes to them. Its a stupid move of course but my guess is that they are worried it will be successful and threaten the EURO.

Why is Germany (the state) "anti credit card"? It is accepted everywhere. You might mean that some Germans don't like CC and prefer cash for privacy reasons. But that is a personal decision.

>It is accepted everywhere.

Not in my experience in the least bit. Germany was the only place that I’ve been where there were so many non-credit card restaurants etc. I was traveling for work in Bavaria and baden-württemberg. It was an issue and we had to make sure I selected the right place to use my work cc.

I took some personal time in Munich and most of the places I went were cash only. 2 students, one from Finland another from the Netherlands complained about the cash issue and forgetting it multiple times. Leading to interesting situations.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#349

Post by vinay_ys »

pantalaimon wrote: post #81
Avamander wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has SEPA (Instant). The Chinese have WeChat Pay and similar? I'm curious, what other solutions other countries have?

Most banks will charge you extra for the instant payment. It's pretty ridiculous.

Not in 3/4 of the world as of today.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#350

Post by Moru »

Hermel wrote: post #270
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

That’s a very typical German mindset. You implicitly assume that nothing good can come out of Libra so it should be banned from the beginning. The pragmatic approach is to wait and see what happens. Most likely, it won’t be as successful as you assume it will be. Also, there are plenty of other forms of private money out there that you don’t seem to have a problem with (e.g. credit cards), as well as foreign currenci…

Germans seem not to like credit cards either. Most people pay with cash at the store.
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