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We Have Ruined Childhood

nytimes.com

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Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#341

Post by neuronic »

m_mueller wrote: post #337
tasssko wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a sweeping generalisation, I bet there are parts of the USA that are thriving and communities that are booming. What we need is more clarity about what is the root cause of the problem. The motivation for my comment is we see similar trends in all developed countries and the symptoms are identical so calling out this issue as being USA is a missed opportunity to focus on the problem. My follow up would be whi…

As a Swiss, when I see that constant supervision is mandated in many US states until 12 years old , then I have to think that there's more than just isolated communities there where it's going wrong. You basically have laws that make anything other than what we call helicopter parenting illegal.

As a European who spent more than half a decade in the US, this is the US in general. Not just with children. The entire society is build as if its members are too ignorant/not educated enough to follow even basic principles or etiquette.

It's like instead of education the society revolves around babysitting.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#342

Post by neuronic »

seanhandley wrote: post #325
netmonk wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was this study published around 10 years ago, showing that in 1850 the average diameter of field of play of children were around 10km close to the house. In 2007 it was mostly 250m away from the house.

One word: cars.

Another word: What?

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#343

Post by Kaotique »

Scoutmaster wrote: post #14
protomyth wrote: post #5

Well, if you report 24x7 hate and danger, scare the crap out of people, and report that there is danger behind every tree, then yes, childhoods are ruined. Things are getting safer and the only way you would know it is go look at the CDC stats. Kids need time with their friends away from parents. I'm so glad I was able to grow up in the (sadly last) "be home for dinner, be back by dark" generation.

I recently became a Scoutmaster. That's what I'm trying to do: give the kids the same opportunity we had - freedom to explore the outdoors. Confidence to take care of themselves and not need an adult to do everything for them. To give them opportunites to build character.

I live in the Netherlands and in our scout group, we regularly do nighttime droppings in which the children between the ages of 11-15 have to find their way back not knowing where they were dropped.

We also sent them out sailing by themselves all day across the lake. They have to navigate and set up their tent on the sailboat themselves. We only check up on them once before nighttime and then sail back to our own campsite, which may be an hour or more by boat. The next morning they pack up their stuff, prepare the boat and set sail to travel back to the campsite (half-day sailing depending on the wind conditions). The oldest boy (14-15 years old) is in charge and has to bring everyone back safe. Some of my best memories are surviving and being responsible for the other kids. You have to take care of them, teach them and protect them.

These days they have a mobile phone, so in case of an emergency, they can contact the grown-up leaders. But in my time we got a couple of coins for a payphone and we were also fine.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#344

Post by heavenlyblue »

Crinus wrote: post #334
dmje wrote: post #293

You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar. For me, this journey with my kids has been about a massive slew of things, among the most important: - extending their childhood where possible: enc…

> a large part of this has been about not being constantly distracted when I’m with other people I do not understand this, why would a smartphone distract you if you do not set it up to distract you? Can't you just not install all the distracting software and turn all notifications off? This is how i have my phone (i do not have any "social" app installed, do not allow any notifications and have it in almost constant…

Yeah.

And I can always pick up my phone to actually show something I recently liked in the gallery or as a product.

Also a phone is a great way to tell a story when you also have pictures of something you’d like to share in person.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#345

Post by safgasCVS »

dmje wrote: post #293

You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar. For me, this journey with my kids has been about a massive slew of things, among the most important: - extending their childhood where possible: enc…

Doesn’t sound you’re poor at all

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#346

Post by [deleted] »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #330
johnisgood wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the heck? Madness. When I was a kid (not too long ago), we used to throw rocks at other people's windows. Cops has been called out. They came and told us in a polite, friendly manner to not do that, or go elsewhere. Nothing else happened! We were unsupervised, etc. Would have I been taken away from my family in the US for this incident?

Possibly: It is just as or more likely that you, as a child, might have had to deal with the juvenile justice system, depending on your age. 4-5, maybe not, but 10-12? Definitely. I'll add that your treatment would likely depend on the color of your skin, how well-to-do your neighborhood was, and how familiar the cop was with you and your family (small town vs large one, really). They may or may not call child servic…

[deleted]

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#347

Post by wastedhours »

code_duck wrote: post #179

This isn’t anything new. In my 90s middle school and high school, the official policy of my school was that we would have an hour of homework per academic class each day. We got out of school at 3:30. With 5 academic classes, a typical bedtime of 10 o’clock, commute times from school of half an hour, and an hour for dinner, that theoretically left zero time for recreation. I’m confused about how they ever thought tha…

One of the few benefits of the terrible school I went to was that we never received homework. The teacher's rationale was that 75% of the class wasn't going to do it, so they couldn't rely on that as a learning mechanism.

We were probably years behind other schools by the time we left, but that meant from 2:30 every day we had free reign. Obviously some kids went down the dealing/thieving route, but I learnt a lot about finding my own entertainment. I honestly think homework is the scourge of childhood, even more so than testing and exams.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#348

Post by _trampeltier »

m_mueller wrote: post #337
tasssko wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a sweeping generalisation, I bet there are parts of the USA that are thriving and communities that are booming. What we need is more clarity about what is the root cause of the problem. The motivation for my comment is we see similar trends in all developed countries and the symptoms are identical so calling out this issue as being USA is a missed opportunity to focus on the problem. My follow up would be whi…

As a Swiss, when I see that constant supervision is mandated in many US states until 12 years old , then I have to think that there's more than just isolated communities there where it's going wrong. You basically have laws that make anything other than what we call helicopter parenting illegal.

But even here in switzerland.

For ex. we played cooking on my grandmothers house on a small toy kitchen where you have to use "META Tabletten" to make a fire. On my parents house we coocked with small children electric plates (10cm or less diameter). The panes where just large enough for an egg or so.

Today it is possible to buy large toy kitchen, but on no of them you really can cook. There are just no real children kitchen anymore .. to dangerous.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#349

Post by wastedhours »

dmje wrote: post #293

You guys in the States have it bad. I hear terrible stories about the fear that now surrounds any kind of freedom for kids. Over here in the UK we’re a bit better, but the “give them exams ALL the time” and schools being on their knees, financially, are all too familiar. For me, this journey with my kids has been about a massive slew of things, among the most important: - extending their childhood where possible: enc…

> be there: work less, hangout more

I keep running across this sentiment, and although I don't have kids yet, is one I intend to take to heart.

"Quality time" is largely BS - making time for a piano recital is pointless and can barely make up for the time if you miss the fun and general bonding the rest of the time.

I remember the times sat eating dinner on the sofa in front the TV having a laugh with my parents more than the "hero" events like sports days or plays.

If you care about your kids and you're pretty stable (obviously, if you don't have money for clothes and food things will be different), just be there.

Re: We Have Ruined Childhood

#350

Post by _trampeltier »

masonic wrote: post #240
moultano wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"During a meal at a restaurant" is the time parents are most likely to get them out. Don't assume that generalizes to when they're at home and have lots of options of what to do while waiting for dinner. Keeping kids quiet and happy while they're hungry and waiting is the hardest part of going out to eat with young kids. We use crayons and paper, but I don't think that's so intrinsically better than an iPad.

That's fine, when it never becomes the all-purpose go-to pacifier. I remember being at an NHL game where a kid was immersed in his device the entire night, despite being in a $148 seat to (IMHO) the most attention-maintaining of all sports. Having never been taken to a major league sporting event for my entire childhood, seeing this saddened me.

Some people, like me, just don't like to watch sports, even I do a lot of sport by myself. I almost never ever watch on TV, I almost never went to watch a live event. The only reason to watch was if I knew somebody in a amateur event.
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