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Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

nytimes.com

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Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#341

Post by snowwrestler »

vannevar wrote: post #242
zaptheimpaler wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone is a product that completely transformed the world and defines what a smartphone is. There are 3 billion of them so almost half the world owns a smartphone. If your bar for "innovative" is seriously that incredibly high, prepare to be disappointed..

Agreed. But what are the contenders since 2008? The iPad and the Apple Watch. The iPad was really co-developed with the iPhone for all practical purposes, as the original iPad prototype inspired the phone. You can definitely make a case for the watch, but it's an extension of the phone in so many ways.

You need an iPhone to set up a cellular Apple Watch Series 4. After that, you can leave the phone at home and:

- Send and receive phone calls and messages

- Navigate using turn by turn directions

- Use Siri

- listen to synced music playlists with bluetooth headphones

- track activity and heart rate

- look at pictures

This is not that different from an iPhone prior to iOS 5, when you needed a computer to set up and update an iPhone.

Is the Apple Watch innovative? I would argue yes, it’s an incredible piece of technology. Will it be as successful as the iPhone? I would guess, probably not.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#342

Post by tdy_err »

S_A_P wrote: post #32

I have thought long and hard about upgrading my iPhone 8 to one of the new X models, but I don't like the lack of a home button. I guess I am officially old now, but I dont want to look at my phone to unlock it. I like that I can reach in my pocket, and unlock it with my thumb as I retrieve it. It may be user error, but I see several co-workers have to really train the phone on their face to unlock with Face ID. That…

There is a Face ID setting to require attention that you can disable which would then allow you to unlock the phone without looking at it. Of course, your face still has to be in front of the phone somewhere, but your gaze needn’t be on the device.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#343

Post by justapassenger »

scarface74 wrote: post #317
justapassenger wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AKA - watch market is small.

Apple probably sells more watches at a healthier profit than console makers sell. Should the console makers stop selling game systems?

That's not relevant. Apple is one of the worlds most valuable company, and they're stagnating. They've been hitting home-runs with products before, and creating new markets.

Watch, even if it ends up eating the whole current market, but not creating new one, is a failure by Apple standards. Unless Apple is going to branch out and become company like Samsung, that makes everything from watches, to nuclear power plants. Apple success story was never about big portfolio of products - they were always about few products, but extremely focused and creating whole new markets for them.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#344

Post by dmoy »

mort96 wrote: post #294
ajross wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit spun too, though. Revenue is up just .93%. Net income is down 12.7%. And they beat the estimates because the estimates were expecting bad news, as the overall trend has been stagnant for about two years. Those just aren't good numbers for a company that, over the past decade, has been literally the most profitable in history. They aren't "bad" numbers, but for Apple they're sort of a disaster. The iPhone…

When are we going to stop expecting exponential growth though? Or should the exponential growth just continue indefinitely? Is there no value in having a nice S-curve, ending up as one of the most profitable companies in history, and then just staying insanely profitable for a long time in a sustainable way?

If that's .93% over last year, then it's negative after inflation.

So there may not be an expectation of exponential growth forever, but literally declining revenue vs inflation is a different conversation.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#345

Post by mort96 »

ajross wrote: post #325
mort96 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When are we going to stop expecting exponential growth though? Or should the exponential growth just continue indefinitely? Is there no value in having a nice S-curve, ending up as one of the most profitable companies in history, and then just staying insanely profitable for a long time in a sustainable way?

We have stopped expecting exponential growth, that's what the linked article is about. "Slowing Growth" is literally in the title! And that means things, like for example the stock has to decline and/or dividends increase because it becomes more productive to put that money into companies that are growing. Investors care about news like this. It seems like a lot (a lot ) of readers here are looking at the article as…

I was commenting on the idea that "for Apple, [these numbers] are sort of a disaster". I agree that Apple changing from a growth company to a static company is interesting to investors.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#346

Post by ceezuns »

augustk wrote: post #128
ceezuns wrote: post #94

I don't understand why these articles think that people will just keep buying, like in the past decade the lifespan of devices has become bigger and bigger. I'm typing this post on a 2013 Macbook and I'm sure a lot of other users are using older laptops than that, that run perfectly fine. Like does the media just expect people to be buying new stuff again and again? I don't know if I'm just missing the point or somet…

Sooner or later you will have to buy a new device due to planned obsolescence, i.e. when (security) updates are no longer released. But then you can of course install a free operating system instead.

You do bring up a very valid point but I think that is true with anything that consumers buy like cars, or common household products when things just start to break or newer iterations of those products come out with better features.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#347

Post by scarface74 »

justapassenger wrote: post #343
scarface74 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple probably sells more watches at a healthier profit than console makers sell. Should the console makers stop selling game systems?

That's not relevant. Apple is one of the worlds most valuable company, and they're stagnating. They've been hitting home-runs with products before, and creating new markets. Watch, even if it ends up eating the whole current market, but not creating new one, is a failure by Apple standards. Unless Apple is going to branch out and become company like Samsung, that makes everything from watches, to nuclear power plants…

So exactly what category of electronics do you propose that Apple can enter that has a larger worldwide penetration than the smart phone market - there are 2.72 billion smart phone users worldwide (https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-w...)?

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#348

Post by Godel_unicode »

kondro wrote: post #246
jvagner wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple will never get the same P/E love, because they only make like 4 things (Mac, iPhone, iPad, services). Everyone loves to hate on Apple on multiple fronts (elitist, expensive, over the hill), whereas the hate on Amazon is really about one thing.. that ol "makes no profit" canard. CLARIFICATION: I’m talking perception, not my beliefs. Uber’s a scam, as far as I can tell, but they will either pull off a miracle or…

What’s Salesforce’s P/E again? Or Facebook or Twitter or Uber or Snap?

For the curious: 105, 33, 13.55, 2366, -19, respectively.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#349

Post by Aloha »

delfinom wrote: post #332
october_sky wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple TV (and accompanying remote) is by far one of the worst UI/UX experiences I've seen.

Try Carplay, it's an absolute fucking disaster to use compared to Android Auto.

How so?

Having used both of them, I'd profoundly disagree with you on that statement. I consider CarPlay a much more elegant solution than Android Auto. Particularly that android auto will change settings on your head unit. The early versions of it also completely disabled your phone screen.

Re: Apple Reports Declining Profits and Slowing Growth Again

#350

Post by Aloha »

iamgopal wrote: post #316
capkutay wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AAPL is still undervalued compared to stocks like AMZN. Apple's P/E of 17 is amazing compared to Amazons 78. I'm not really sure why their stock isn't traded with the same enthusiasm that other tech companies see.

AAPL's capacity for sustainance is doubtful, when they are giving money back to investors. What is the growth path for them ? They will continue to milk successful product but no "next" strategy in sight.

There was no iPhone until there was, no iPad until there was - I don't see the big deal here.
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