Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#341

Post by SamReidHughes » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 7:16 AM UTC

gotocake wrote: post #285

OmarIsmail wrote: post #21

All the "free speech" advocates here, do you still stand by that when it comes to child porn, or specific threats against individuals? If you do, and publicly, well... at least you're consistent. If you don't then you're already ok with some kind of censorship, and the argument is just about where the line is drawn. I really don't like when people talk about "censorship in general" when they really mean "This is belo…

Kids were killed in this attack too, unless I’m mistaken. So to add to your point, if you’re against child pornography, but not child snuff what’s the reasoning? Is it just because the social stigma around child abuse is so much stronger than murder? If so, then the child porn “exception” to free speech absolutism is arbitrary; the result of social pressure and not an ethical stance. It seems sad to think people need…

The point of child porn laws is to put perverts in jail. There are not legions of child snuff film watchers which also kill children.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#342

Post by white-flame » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 7:50 AM UTC

x38iq84n wrote: post #2

The shooting in Christchurch is a tragedy that should not have happened. That said, this massive wave of censorship across MSM, NZ ISPs, regardless of the motivation, is very disturbing. It will be inevitably used to suppress citizens' freedoms, it will cause more tension in society that will escalate into more tragical incidents. Also, the video may serve someone to study modus operandi of such an attacker to increa…

The censorship is also sprouting up conspiracy theories, claiming that they're taking down the video because there's something to hide in it compared to the official reporting.

This video is historical fact, the most direct record of an important terrible event that had wide-ranging effect and became global news. Its accessibility helps squash rumors about what people think happened or didn't happen. Combined with the manifesto, it also shows why it happened.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#343

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:11 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #333

reader5000 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is 4chan more toxic than e.g. the New York Times?

Please don't do this here.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#344

Post by reader5000 » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:22 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #333

reader5000 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is 4chan more toxic than e.g. the New York Times?

Please don't do this here.

Do what exactly?

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#345

Post by bjowen » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:32 AM UTC

1rkd wrote: post #103

UncleMeat wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This video is fascist propaganda. It isn't neutral. It also isn't "purged from the internet".

I don't think this can really be considered propaganda. It functions more to shock, insult, and potentially "brag". I think it is almost impossible that this video can garner support for white supremacist causes in anyone other than an already deeply racist and violent person. Seeing this unfold only portrays the shooter as a cowardly psychopath.

... to you and luckily most people. I think the concern is twofold: the number of individuals who will take the footage as some sort of incitement is non-negligible - as this cowardly psychopath has apparently done with the Norwegian attack some years ago. There is also the concern that it will be disseminated amongst those whose inclination is towards revenge as anti-Western propaganda.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#346

Post by oliwarner » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 8:35 AM UTC

TheTruth1234 wrote: post #178

zed88 wrote: post #135

I think censorship is not going to fix the issue, people have the right to see and face evil if they so wish to and have a strong heart. I am from NZ and a muslim and have watched the video myself an hour after the incident, I know people personally affected by this and I think we all need to come together as human beings and understand that there are some evil ideas and people everywhere around the world. And that's…

>> I think censorship is not going to fix the issue, people have the right to see and face evil if they so wish to and have a strong heart. It's the inadvertent exposure that's more of a problem. The access is just so easy. If you were browsing at the time it was happening, you almost couldn't not watch the video because it was so prevelant. I'm imagining a 16 year old coming across it, and wondering how they process…

A million times this.

Every public interaction you make is an excuse for Facebook to shove it in the face of your friends. If you see this and angry-like it, it pops up on a few hundred more feeds. Rinse, repeat. Viral.

Facebook is particularly bad because their moderation team appears to be staffed exclusively by a pile of libertarian twelve year olds. I've flagged local drug sales, sexually explicit content (no, not casual or functional nudity) many times and had my flags rejected.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#347

Post by thirdsun » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 9:00 AM UTC

40acres wrote: post #11

We have yet to have a real discussion about what we expect the largest platforms to do about content like this. The nature of online content is that once it's created it can be copied quite easily, if Facebook was able to block 80% of this content that should be commended. AI is not at the point where we can expect 100% of this content to be removed and if it was there would likely be some collateral damage that othe…

This discussion is also releveant for the upload filters the european union deems necessary. If Facebook and Google (ContentID) can't do it reliably, who can?

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#348

Post by wtdata » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 9:40 AM UTC

warning26 wrote: post #9

I know people on here will disagree with this, but I think many of these events indicate that online censorship is needed. I believe it's becoming increasingly clear that merely allowing far-right dialogue online is essentially responsible for ease of radicalization, and that proactive censorship would be the best approach to forestall this.

It is highly distressful and should give us all a big scare, when we arrived a point where you can expressly call for censorship and direct it solely to the political view opposed to yours.

If you were calling for censorship against both far right and far left, sure, I would probably disagree but would concede it was a coherence point of view.

But calling for censorship solely against one side, makes someone by definition a totalitarian.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#349

Post by krageon » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 10:57 AM UTC

telesilla wrote: post #22

x38iq84n wrote: post #2

The shooting in Christchurch is a tragedy that should not have happened. That said, this massive wave of censorship across MSM, NZ ISPs, regardless of the motivation, is very disturbing. It will be inevitably used to suppress citizens' freedoms, it will cause more tension in society that will escalate into more tragical incidents. Also, the video may serve someone to study modus operandi of such an attacker to increa…

Can I ask you: how can I, who does not at all want to see any graphic images, avoid these without censorship? It's not fair to allow these things in the public field where we might see disturbing things without wanting to. Videos and images must be tagged, and therefore given a rating so that I can self-censor.

Tailor your environment to suit your sensibilities. Nobody is prying open your eyes and showing this to you and it is and has been perfectly possible to not see this video anywhere.

Re: Facebook failed to block 20% of uploaded New Zealand shooter videos

#350

Post by krageon » Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 10:59 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #120

x38iq84n wrote: post #2

The shooting in Christchurch is a tragedy that should not have happened. That said, this massive wave of censorship across MSM, NZ ISPs, regardless of the motivation, is very disturbing. It will be inevitably used to suppress citizens' freedoms, it will cause more tension in society that will escalate into more tragical incidents. Also, the video may serve someone to study modus operandi of such an attacker to increa…

It is extremely telling to me that of all the comments here, most of them I've seen express concern not with the fact that 50 people were murdered by white supremacists (a number that seems to be rising year over year) but rather attempting to divert the topic into one about censorship and free speech. I have seen zero proposed solutions or ways of combating the rise of white supremacists because so far, the market p…

You know what, this is a valid point. Before this incident I mostly filed away the re-rise of fascism as "just another American piece of weirdness" that would more or less correct itself given another five years. Perhaps now that we see similar problems in other countries it is time to investigate where the feelings of discontent that are giving rise to violent action are coming from on such a grand scale. On a global level, it's definitely not clear to me.