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Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

nytimes.com

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Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#341

Post by savethefuture »

will_brown wrote: post #326
psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

>But no, because Comcast has -bribed- donated to way more congresspeople than Google... Lobbying is tracked and google spent over 33% more than Comcast - in your own words - bribing members of Congress. The bulk of Google’s lobbying expenditure was for immigration, tax reform and antitrust. I’d say Google’s far better “at playing the game” after all no one is randomly sticking up for Comcast.

Can you please provide source links to this 33%? I assume it is public info but where do I find that.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#342

Post by carlosdp »

Bhilai wrote: post #318

What about closing Tax loopholes, such that Apple and Amazon pay their fair share and Netflix does not pay zero tax ?

Netflix paying zero tax wasn't actually a loophole, afaik, it was because revenues were re-invested in growth, which includes hiring more people and paying more for infrastructure and such, which is something we want American companies to definitely do.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#344

Post by sleepysysadmin »

velcrovan wrote: post #116
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #16

To what end? "illegally undermine competition?" She is inferring that Google/Amazon/Facebook are committing anti-trust crimes? What proof does she have? >Companies would be barred from transferring or sharing users’ data with third parties. That can be done without breaking them up. I don't think she realizes that splitting up amazon and amazon basics will do little to nothing. There are other things that can be done…

There is a case for splitting Amazon and AWS. The point of anti-trust laws is to break up monopolies because they represent a massive and dangerous concentration of market and political power in the hands of the few. You don't need evidence of any specific crime to do it. You can say you'd prefer it not be that way. But it's a provision of existing law, with precedents. To really argue for your preference you'd need…

George W Bush tried this against Microsoft. They were unsuccessful. You cannot just decide it's a crime to be large. The fundamental rights like unreasonable seizure and freedom of speech. Which means the government cant just steal the corporation from you or prevent your companies from working together.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#345

Post by uerobert »

JohnFen wrote: post #315
rayiner wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That odd SV myopia. The trend in broadband has been more competition. Verizon competes with Comcast in almost its entire FiOS service area. These days it also competes with cellular—15% (and growing) of households have abandoned wired broadband in favor of cellular. There are four major cellular providers. In tech, the trend has been in the other direction. If you don’t consider Sprint a viable competitor to AT&T, wh…

> The trend in broadband has been more competition. I'm not in SV, but this is 100% not true in my area. Where I live, my choice for broadband providers consists of Comcast. There is no alternative, nor is there any sign that competition is coming.

Why do you think that is?

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#346

Post by ashelmire »

fanzhang wrote: post #247
psadauskas wrote: post #211

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

Also, does the public have the image of Comcast and Verizon CEOs as being specific people who are really rich and dislikable? So that taking them down a notch will make the public happy? And so taking them down a notch is a good political stance? To be fair, I think there is some argument that some of the larger tech giants would benefit consumer welfare by being broken up. Facebook probably less so since people alre…

> What a real monopoly is is when there is no consumer choice at all, leading to large corporate profits that hurt consumers at the pricing level.

Well, sure, 100% national market share is obviously a monopoly. But you're also a monopoly if you distort a market (generally markets with less than 3 major players) or have control or distortion over individual markets (you can have a monopoly in NYC but not the US, for example).

I think this obviously applies to telecoms, which often have monopolies over certain areas (and often granted by local government! thanks a lot Philly city council).

I think there's a whole host of bad behavior that's non-monopolistic. That's what I think needs to be cracked down on. Some of these do relate to market share, but I don't think it's as simple as a boolean monopoly / not-monopoly. It's a gradient, and much of the behavior in that gradient should be dealt with. There's often collusion between companies on pricing, or agreements not to compete, etc...

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#347

Post by NeedMoreTea »

andromeduck wrote: post #336
natej wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On #1 I too had the same question, but I think the difference there is that department/grocery stores are re-sellers. They've already bought the goods from the third-party and are choosing to re-sell it at a markup. Amazon on the otherhand is a platform which only enables the initial sale.

That's not really how it works anymore. It depends on the product type but often brands pay for shelf space and unsold goods are refunded.

They call it the back margin. Brands buy shelf space, position, pay for offers and promotions, extra payments (effectively a fine) if volume targets are not reached, etc.

Tesco infamously had 24 ways of extracting extra money from suppliers via back margin. The front margin is the traditional agreed buying price.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#348

Post by [deleted] »

pitaj wrote: post #288
baskint wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree, ISPs, cable-providers and wireless carriers should also be on the top of the list. Same here, there is no alternate to Comcast in where I live offering a similar service. They have been doing very slight improvements in service while almost doubling their prices. Paying $110/month for a business line with 50 down / 10 up, while recently i was offered then refused a promotion upgrade to $140/month with 150 down…

On the other hand, the reasons that ISPs are territorial monopolies (local, state, and federal regulatory capture) are hard to address. Splitting territorial monopolies into smaller territorial monopolies is unlikely to help.

[deleted]

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#349

Post by dragonwriter »

She complains that the problem is lax enforcement of existing antitrust laws and her solution is, instead of enforcement of existing antitrust laws, radical new antitrust laws that do not focus on conduct or evidence of consumer harm?

Not only do I think the particular policy is ill-conceived, but the preference for legislation when the entire premise is an assessment that existing law is unenforced rather than defective is even more worrying. And I say that as someone who has up to this point seen Warren as probably the strongest 2020 candidate.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#350

Post by djrogers »

Bhilai wrote: post #316
pradn wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how Microsoft isn't mentioned in the same breath as FAANG companies. It's in the top 3 companies by market cap, has a dozen billion-dollar businesses, does really well in enterprise, is aggressive in the cloud and hardware, has a large seat at the open-source table these days, and has a large set of older products that keep generating billions. If Apple is in there, why not Microsoft? Both are heavily conc…

Microsoft is pretty big in consumer space as well - Xbox, Skype, Bing ...I think its Silicon Valley vs not in Silicon Valley thing. Microsoft is counted out because of not being physically located in SV. Thats my theory.

Amazon isn't located in SV either.
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