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Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

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Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#341

Post by cannonedhamster »

dajohnson89 wrote: post #81
zawerf wrote: post #9

I think that's just a corollary of "63% Of Americans Don't Have Enough Savings To Cover A $500 Emergency": https://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2016/01/06/63-of-... EDIT: My comment is in reference to the old thread title, which was something like "More than 42 percent of the 9.5 million people diagnosed with cancer from 2000 to 2012 drained their life's assets within two years"

cancer treatments in USA are several orders of magnitude more expensive than $500. I know a breast cancer survivor with $100k of medical debt.

Let's see, since starting treatment in October, even with awesome healthcare we've spent over $5k in treatment. I absolutely believe the $100K statement as I've seen what the insurance pays.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#342

Post by karakot »

vinceguidry wrote: post #293

Canadian version of Breaking Bad: "You have cancer. Treatment starts next week." The end.

A real Canadian version is the following:

- You've got a backpain? Here is your ibuprofen peal.

- But I have very severe back pain.

- Here is your bigger ibuprofen peal, come back in 6 month to see the specialist.

6 month later in US:

- Congratulations, you've got cancer.

3 years and more than $1M in bills later:

- This is the end.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#343

Post by cannonedhamster »

vamos_davai wrote: post #4

It's such an absurd expense that I wonder if I get diagnosed with cancer, I would just deny treatment, accept death, and hand my assets to loved ones. Not sure if anyone else thinks the same way.

So it's definitely something that goes through your mind, however I've had the discussion with my wife. There's also the possibility that you'd be cured. It's entirely going to depend on your diagnosis, which you literally don't know until after you've gone through a CT scan, PET scan, and possibly surgery to determine tumor staging. I can say based on numerous conversations with other people, if you think you're going to die, you're going to die. Cancer is also extremely painful physically for some people with or without treatment. Best bet? Get life insurance.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#344

Post by evolvedcleaning »

evolvedcleaning wrote: post #219
ZeroFries wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that route is unpopular because we no longer have a sane relationship with death as a society. Religion, at least in theory, should help, but rates are declining there too. We'll pay any price to avoid the inevitable. We'll spend hundreds of thousands to get one more year of poor quality time with family, yet neglect to spend that time in better quality when health is taken for granted. If you had no family,…

This is precisely my plan. I gave away upwards of $1 million USD last year. I have no assets remaining, no career, parents, spouse or pet. I’m almost out of money finally. 40 something white American male college drop out with no social connections. Tinnitus and hyperacusis long term. The biggest part is figuring out how to maximize the donation of my organs to the medical school by coordinating self termination in a…

As it turns out, there is no way to donate most organs unless you pass in an appropriate medical setting, to keep the organs alive.

The next best option seems to donate body to medical school.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#345

Post by cannonedhamster »

OnACoffeeBreak wrote: post #17

This is a 2019 article covering a study that covers 2000 to 2012 and doesn't mention the Affordable Care Act signed into law in 2010. Insurance landscape has changed quite a bit in the USA since ACA, which makes this not very interesting. What I would be interested in is repeating the study now and comparing results.

I got cancer in 2018. Very little has changed. It's still very expensive.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#346

Post by elliekelly »

maire wrote: post #160
elliekelly wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he proactively disclose that to you or did it just come up in conversation? Attorneys in many states aren't required to have malpractice insurance but must disclose to clients if their malpractice insurance doesn't meet some minimum standard. Edit to add that I also suspect the health insurance companies are a big part of driving up the malpractice insurance costs. For example, if there's some sort of error in a…

She not he. When my daughter had her babies I recommended my doctor who was pretty young when she delivered my babies. In fact - we were both pregnant together. She was a couple of months behind me. My doctor notified up front that she did not have malpractice insurance. In fact the insurance situation is pretty hard on working mothers. I know 2 doctors who gave up medicine when they had their children. They wanted t…

Yikes! I’m embarrassed to have assumed your doctor was a male. Thanks for pointing that out :)

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#347

Post by cannonedhamster »

justin66 wrote: post #265
wpdev_63 wrote: post #224

Has anyone tried flying to another country for more affordable treatment after the diagnosis? Countries like Germany and some south american countries have much more affordable treatment even factoring in the lodging and flying.

Having to fly to receive treatment seems like it might significantly affect the likelihood of a full recovery. Cancer patients tend to have compromised immune systems and airplanes are filthy.

As a cancer patient, wear a mask. I travel for work all the time, even right after chemo. I'm not older, which makes for a stronger immune system in the first place, but planes just require hand sanitizer and a face mask. The real problem would be you would have to be able to pay out of pocket for lodging, translation services, treatment, etc. and in most cases overall survival is better in the US for late stage cancer.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#348

Post by cannonedhamster »

cwkoss wrote: post #319
ok_coo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of times when in/out network is an impossible thing to determine or plan for. I had an out patient surgery about a year ago and while my doctor and every admin I talked said that everything would be in network, I still had someone sneak in who was supposedly out of network. Then came the bill of what should have been ~$300 was around $2500. I got that BS waived only by called my doctor's office and t…

If you tell everyone who admits you "I don't consent to any procedures or care from out of network providers", could you sue any out-of-network providers who operate anyway for malpractice? Or I wonder if a similar "HIPAA trap" could be constructed by categorically revoking consent to share your PMI with any out-of-network individuals and companies?

Typically the people performing the operations don't know if they are out of network. That's handled by a separate billing department.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#349

Post by danieltillett »

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #336
danieltillett wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MMT sounds awfully like the Magic Pudding [1]. If governments can just print any amount of money they like to pay for everything whence cometh hyperinflation? 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Pudding

Thank you very much. This is precisely conversation we need to have. Exhibit A: Obama boom we hit 10% GDP deficits, the biggest since WWII resulting in no inflation and in fact slight deflation and GDP never averaged above 3% annually. Exhibit B: WWII, we hit around 22% GDP deficits. Full employment ( with a very high labor participation rate [rosy the rivoter, etc]) no hyperinflation and probably not much inflation.

The Obama boom was during the worst recession since the Great Depression so there was plenty of slack in the economy to absorb money creation.

WW2 is more complicated as there were price controls and rationing in place to prevent inflation. it is unlikely that you could impose such controls outside of a total war situation.

All the historical examples of hyperinflation have occurred when governments have printed far more currrency than they have raised in tax or via the debt market. Spending tens trillions dollars more than you raise in taxes is likely to end in tears.

Re: Cancer Complications: Confusing Bills, Maddening Errors And Endless Phone Calls

#350

Post by danieltillett »

Forbo wrote: post #331
danieltillett wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MMT sounds awfully like the Magic Pudding [1]. If governments can just print any amount of money they like to pay for everything whence cometh hyperinflation? 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Pudding

I don't understand why this discussion often turns to the Fed issuing more money, rather than the re-allocation of existing funds. It's pretty clear that the US is already spending more as far as %/GDP/per capita on healthcare than other countries that have socialized medicine. To me that just screams waste and inefficiency, er, I mean... profits!

Because it has become the magic solution to solving difficult problems. You don't have to make difficult choices between spending options, just buy everything and put it on the nations credit card.

Reforming the US healthcare system is incredibly difficult because everything is interconnected. If you try to reform it piecemeal things start to fall apart.

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