Whitespace killed an enterprise app • Hacker News Board

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#341

Post by frosted-flakes » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

nulagrithom wrote: post #182

> Users absolutely hated the new system. I feel like this is a universal absolute, doubly so when it comes to enterprise apps (the lone exception being when we switched from Lotus Notes to Gmail -- then only half the company hated the change). I would've liked to know how long the changes were in place and how it affected productivity metrics, especially the amount of training time spent on new users. As is, the arti…

He's talking about a dead tree dictionary, not a piece of software. While I largely agree with you, adding a search bar to a book isn't possible.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#342

Post by alan_n » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

mcbits wrote: post #286

alan_n wrote: post #108

I don't really agree about the merging of information (the rest is fine). In the example, what happens if you want to sort by state or zip (assuming they are sortable)? The upgrade is really just a downgrade functionality wise in that case. This is something I find happens time and time again, an app will get redesigned and lose functionality to look simpler. It might not be the case here if it doesn't need to allow…

Merging fields for display doesn't preclude sorting by the merged fields, which may or may not be trivial depending on the UI libraries being used. But if the user wants to sort by state, it's worth finding out why. Is it so they can "simply" scroll down 50 pages to the Louisiana customers in order to print out a screenshot and fax it to the Louisiana office?

That's true, I just feel the example is a bit dangerous. It could be really good advice in one context and really bad in another.

Also sorting a table is rarely more complex than filtering the data by some property, and although I avoid UI libraries, I can't think how one could get in the way.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#343

Post by frosted-flakes » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:15 AM UTC

soneca wrote: post #219

I am building an enterprise-y software (a 1:1 meeting app[0]) and, not being a designer or UX expert, I am taking some chances with the design. I am using a dark background and I am aiming for a design heuristic where everything of common use is reachable with scroll and 1 click. It becomes a long page the more meetings and notes you had. This does not leave much space for white space. I am also being bold on the use…

Your website needs a little bit more ...ahem... whitespace. Text that is tight to the edge of the screen is unpleasant to read. Meanwhile, I glanced at a couple of the screenshots and noticed they need a lot less whitespace, especially vertically.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#344

Post by frosted-flakes » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:18 AM UTC

arendtio wrote: post #123

I don't think the root problem is white space. Taking the dictionary example: A good dictionary doesn't display a hundred words per page. Instead, you just need a box to write down the word you search and a few lines to display the results. Plenty of space for the designer to turn white. The problem is somewhere in the process where someone creates an app without having experience with the old system and not understa…

The quote about dictionaries refers to paper dictionaries, does it not?

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#345

Post by int_19h » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:20 AM UTC

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #273

m741 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's over 20 years old, it launched in 1996. Time flies.

oh wow, I stand corrected. I always thought it was 10 years old because I discovered it around 2008. Sheesh.

Remember Windows XP?

Fun fact: we're further away from its first release (2001), than it was from Windows 1.0 (1985).

Remember Windows 7?

We're further away from its first release (2009), than it was from XP.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#346

Post by SubiculumCode » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:21 AM UTC

The harder to scan example was easier than the east to scan example, for me.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#347

Post by frosted-flakes » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:21 AM UTC

godshatter wrote: post #117

I think interfaces should be constrained to match the specifications of your input devices and screens. If your users use a mouse, then dense windows with lots of check boxes and radio buttons is usable, and probably preferred. If your users might interact with fingers on a tablet or phone, then you need more space around things to make it easier on the user. I've never been a fan of trying to build one interface tha…

What if I'm using a mouse, keyboard, and a touch screen? Like my laptop, when sometimes it's just easier to jab the screen.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#348

Post by int_19h » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:22 AM UTC

renjimen wrote: post #45

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

Hallelujah. It's not just enterprise apps, either. I've seen more than a few consumer app redesigns that just seemed to tack on the "clean", "minimalist", "whitespace" ethos, without really having a clue of an understanding of how users actually used the product. I think this is a big factor in what killed slashdot. They did a big redesign years back that added a lot of whitespace but actually made it incredibly diff…

Spotify. These days it's so hard to organise or browse your own music collection.

I haven't seen a web music player / library manager with good UX for a very long time.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#349

Post by int_19h » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:26 AM UTC

tabtab wrote: post #185

ryandrake wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m convinced this happens everywhere, at almost every software company. As a developer, the most demotivating part of my job was the endless redesigns-for-the-sake-of-redesigns that kept happening. It’s ultimately what drove me away from being an individual contributor software engineer. And it’s always for goofy vague reasons: “It looks dated!” “It needs more pop!” “It’s not fresh enough!” (What are we making? Soft…

Everyone is afraid of being "left behind" and not being able to get a job. Keeping one's resume marketable trumps being productive.

I'm starting to look forward to the days when I can just work on old projects in semi-retirement, where all of this stuff doesn't matter, and the languages and frameworks are the ones that I grew up with.

This isn't to say there's no new good stuff. The problem is that there's also all the new fads, and it's a very rare job when you can get the good without the fads.

Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app

#350

Post by int_19h » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 2:29 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #26

oblio wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do it, but it requires tons and tons of effort. And even after all that, you can't escape the backlash. There's a great series by Jensen Harris, Office Program Manager, about how they designed the Ribbon: https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/jensenh/2005/09/26/the-why-... (you can find the rest in his blog archives, unfortunately the images are gone) It was an incredibly complex undertaking, Microsoft did many st…

I don’t know how they come up with the numbers but I still think that menus and toolbars were much more discoverable and faster to use than the ribbon :)

More importantly for power users, they were much more customizable.