Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common • Hacker News Board

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#341

Post by lukas099 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #255

sjg007 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an interesting argument to blame people for their own problems that are largely structural and as the article indicates, effect a large swath of society. It's the same argument for blaming the homeless who say own an iPhone.

If you’ve recently become homeless, it’s very likely you still have an iPhone (and you better hold onto it).

Why had you better hold onto it? Why not sell it and purchase a less-expensive phone and use the profit to improve your situation?

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#342

Post by jondubois » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

robterrin wrote: post #120

jondubois wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because all the surplus goes into rents. If your job depends on you living in a big city, then you need to pay a fortune to get a tiny fraction of the quality of life that your parents had and that you had as a child growing up. A lot of corporate jobs these days force people to live like rats in big cities.

+1 Very good comment. You may like to read some Henry George: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George

I'm already familiar with Georgism. I think it's more relevant now than it ever was.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

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Post by cheez » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

In all of these, nowhere does it state the biggest expense: taxes.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

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Post by imtringued » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:33 PM UTC

ohithereyou wrote: post #193

nunez wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your parents are able to pay for your college tuition, you are provided with a much stronger launch pad. Ain't that the truth. I've spent 10 years at ~$1300/month paying my student loans down. I'm two years from done, but that would have been half a mortgage paid off! To be fair, though, I knew squat about personal finance coming out of college, so I probably would've burned the money some other way.

Quick back of the envelope calculation ($1300/month * 12 months/year * 12 years = $187,200) shows part of the problem - either college should not be necessary (we need a programmer's guild) or the cost of college is way too high.

This is unsustainable for older people. By the time someone in their 50s, who has lost their job, finishes their degree and repays their student loans they'll have reached retirement age and barely broke even. If in those 12 years anything unforeseen happens (lose your job, job doesnt pay as well as expected, etc) they'll have to retire with debt and be forced to work until they die just to pay off the student loan.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

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Post by zozbot123 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 2:58 PM UTC

pixl97 wrote: post #331

scarejunba wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The efficient decision would be to swap out into an Android phone of similar vintage and sell the iPhone. You’ll come out positive because iPhones hold value better.

Um, no. iPhones hold value for multiple reasons. One of which is they last longer. >This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness

iPhones last five years until they go out of support and can no longer install or update most apps. An Android phone will last at least as much on OTA upgrades and OS support alone, and many of them can be made to last far longer once the OTA upgrades are up, by taking the time to unlock them and install the latest Android version they will run.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#346

Post by lukas099 » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:25 PM UTC

opencl wrote: post #59

spoonie wrote: post #19

I think housing costs are a big part of this. Things are almost perfectly stacked in favour of current property owners: oppose any new housing development near you which keeps land prices and rents high, while those wanting to buy or rent can’t or don’t vote and can’t as easily encourage more building as current owners can discourage it. And it’s so simple (not easy, but simple) too: build more to reduce housing cost…

How many places does this really affect? I see people in California complaining about it constantly. It is certainly not a problem where I live. Take a look at the NAR's housing affordability index[1]. Basically 100 means the median family income is exactly enough to quality for a mortgage on the median home price, higher is better. If you look at the HAI by metro area there are a very small number of places where th…

Is qualifying for a mortgage on a house really the same thing as affording it though?

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

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Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 3:58 PM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #326

dragonwriter wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the number of disruptive students that prevent any learning is vastly less. The evidence doesn't really support that, though; students in a “bad” district don't have worse performance than students with similar background in a “better” district (whether because of distraction or any other reason), “better” districts just have more students with backgrounds which are correlated with educational success, of which the…

I believe nothing when it come to data on educational outcomes as it has all been totally corrupted by politics. Do you think smart people would bother to spend a fortune on education (either directly via private schooling or indirectly by housing) if the school didn't matter? Follow the money, not the rhetoric. More directly I have spent sometime helping out in different schools and I have seen with my own eyes the…

> Do you think smart people would bother to spend a fortune on education (either directly via private schooling or indirectly by housing) if the school didn't matter?

Yes, because smart and well informed are not the same thing, and even smart people who have access to systematic information are not immune to dismissing that information due to cognitive biases, particularly confirmation bias.

Quality of school district is also a well worn socially acceptable cover for avoiding proximity to those disliked for reasons of race or class, and smart people can still be racist and/or classist, and are more, not less, likely to seek socially acceptable cover for that.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#348

Post by opencl » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

lukas099 wrote: post #346

opencl wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many places does this really affect? I see people in California complaining about it constantly. It is certainly not a problem where I live. Take a look at the NAR's housing affordability index[1]. Basically 100 means the median family income is exactly enough to quality for a mortgage on the median home price, higher is better. If you look at the HAI by metro area there are a very small number of places where th…

Is qualifying for a mortgage on a house really the same thing as affording it though?

Considering that the usual qualification for getting a mortgage is that payments can't exceed ~30% of your income, yes. They are at least not too far off from each other or tons of people would be defaulting.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

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Post by diminoten » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #330

diminoten wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logic you just gave is the classic penny wise logic, but the reality is you can have as much Starbucks as you want if you stop buying more house or car or education than you actually need. Fucking up big decisions is how Starbucks matters, and one of those fuck ups is to refuse to learn how to use a credit card. People like to pretend constant denial of small pleasure is what makes a difference because martyrdom…

I basically agree with you, but if you stop buying more house or car than you actually need, then you aren't saving thousands a year from credit card use. It's like any optimization problem, at different stages of it there is different low hanging fruit. Yes, if you have the big expenses figured out, you are in a pretty good place. But at that point, it is reasonable to consider whether you have some small bad habits…

The exclusive fixation on "thousands" vs. "many hundreds" or "tens of thousands" is intellectually dishonest.

Re: Living paycheck to paycheck is disturbingly common

#350

Post by moorhosj » Tue, Jan 01, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #326

dragonwriter wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the number of disruptive students that prevent any learning is vastly less. The evidence doesn't really support that, though; students in a “bad” district don't have worse performance than students with similar background in a “better” district (whether because of distraction or any other reason), “better” districts just have more students with backgrounds which are correlated with educational success, of which the…

I believe nothing when it come to data on educational outcomes as it has all been totally corrupted by politics. Do you think smart people would bother to spend a fortune on education (either directly via private schooling or indirectly by housing) if the school didn't matter? Follow the money, not the rhetoric. More directly I have spent sometime helping out in different schools and I have seen with my own eyes the…

I don’t seen anyone mentioning all the learning that takes place at the home. Rich parents likely have more time to spend helping their kids do homework or the money to hire a tutor.