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Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

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Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#341

Post by scarejunba »

pandesmos wrote: post #310
jayd16 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>not sure how I feel about seeing them in piles outside of public schools Kids treat them like shit but what is there to do?

This is the thing that bothers me. They appear to be getting set out in front of my kid’s school (in sets of 4), and it’s the natural inclination for kids to want to run jump and play on them. So now there’s this sort of quandary I have as a parent: do I tell my kids and or other kids to not play on these scooters? And to take care of them? Where should I draw the line? I don’t see them in poor areas of town, so it’s…

> These scooters (despite their benefit) are ultimately taking money out of the community (if they’re profitable) and they’re budgeting for loss and damage, so why not let the kids play on them and damage them?

This is pretty much the same argument as people who litter at ball games and then say "The cleaning crew will pick it up. That's their job."

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#342

Post by analogmemory »

As a cyclist, I'm hopeful that these bike/scooter/wheel-shares programs will force governments to examine their plans for keeping people safe. More low-speed travel lanes for bikes, scooters, one-wheels, hoverboards, etc. Keep the sidewalks for walking and wheelchairs.

Otherwise we are sure to end up like China in these photos: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-oversup...

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#343

Post by fulafel »

jyrkesh wrote: post #116
justinator wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privately owning a bike is not cost prohibitive, you know.

It could be from the perspective of storage and maintenance. For me, one of the hardest things about owning a bike is where the hell to put it. I live in a city where I can't lock it up outside overnight or it'll eventually be stolen. And as someone else mentioned, flat tires are a pain, checking/maintaining brakes are a pain...I can afford to have someone else do it, but that's still way more of a hassle than just b…

You can get a lot of help from low maintenance parts like marathon plus tires, roller brakes, nexus/alfine hub gears. For outdoor storage vs theft, a beat up looking muddy off brand frame does a lot.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#344

Post by scarejunba »

e40 wrote: post #84
cortesoft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big issue that most people have with them is the large externality of having scooters littered around the sidewalk. In a lot of places in West Los Angeles, you are having to step around them constantly if you walk down the street. People literally just drop them in the middle of the sidewalk, because there is no incentive for them to not do that. This means that everyone who doesn't use the service has to…

I don't so much mind them littering the sidewalk as them being ridden on the sidewalk. They are extremely dangerous for pedestrians. Should I step around that dog poop, I might be hit by a scooter coming up from behind me. I have had close a dozen close calls when I was walking in a straight line. I walk 4 miles/day on sidewalks with these things.

Extremely dangerous? Just so I can calibrate my understanding, what are a couple of other things you consider extremely dangerous?

For me, extremely dangerous means high risk of death or grievous body harm. Something like 100 micromorts per exposure. I want to ensure I'm not underrating this.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#345

Post by scarejunba »

ravenstine wrote: post #245
cortesoft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big issue that most people have with them is the large externality of having scooters littered around the sidewalk. In a lot of places in West Los Angeles, you are having to step around them constantly if you walk down the street. People literally just drop them in the middle of the sidewalk, because there is no incentive for them to not do that. This means that everyone who doesn't use the service has to…

I feel bad for people in wheelchairs that have to come to a dead stop for these scooters. I live in Santa Monica and regularly see scooters left flat in the middle of the sidewalk. I mean, what the actual fuck? The fact that so many people that use these services lack any respect makes me hesitate to ride the scooters(and thereby join them).

There are people who dislike these things so they'll kick them over when they see them. It's not usually the users.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#346

Post by scarejunba »

maxk42 wrote: post #77
cortesoft wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big issue that most people have with them is the large externality of having scooters littered around the sidewalk. In a lot of places in West Los Angeles, you are having to step around them constantly if you walk down the street. People literally just drop them in the middle of the sidewalk, because there is no incentive for them to not do that. This means that everyone who doesn't use the service has to…

Especially hurtful to people who have limited mobility and get around with a wheelchair, walker, crutches, or have trouble bending down to move them out of the way. On top of that I've seen them left in bushes, in the street taking up parking space, or blocking doors or gates.

I don't see what's wrong with them taking up parking space. Considering mean occupancy of cars in America, the street parked scooter is doing just as well in serving one individual as a street parked car. In fact, I'd argue we should remove more parking spots and switch them to scooter spots.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#347

Post by scarejunba »

cortesoft wrote: post #287
SamReidHughes wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the argument for parking is that it's democratically decided, then being able to leave scooters around wherever is also democratically decided. Santa Monica could pass a scooter law whenever it wants to. They don't have a policy on nose-picking or walking without looking where you're going either. The actual basis of your complaint is that you like parking, but you don't like scooters being put wherever.

No, my entire point has been that we need laws about where scooters are parked. I think it is a bit unfair to say we have democratically decided to let scooters park everywhere simply by the fact that we haven't yet passed any laws about where they can park; the law is slow to move, and the scooter parking issue is pretty new. Before Bird and Lime, there were not enough scooters around to be a big enough problem wher…

We've democratically decided to allow people to use the new iPhone X. Scooters are the same.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#348

Post by landryraccoon »

cortesoft wrote: post #118
SamReidHughes wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about all the cars littered on the sides of the street? Don't you have to walk around those too?

No? If you tried to park a car on the sidewalk you will get towed. I mean, in Santa Monica if you are 1 minute late past the time on the sign you will get towed. The cars are parked in designated spots on the road, with all sorts of rules about how long and how much you have to pay for the spot. In Santa Monica, pretty much every available parking spot has a meter that means you have to pay to park there, and are lim…

> No? If you tried to park a car on the sidewalk you will get towed.

This is disingenuous. It ignores all the externalities of car friendly cities that you're taking for granted. Busy streets are wider with more lanes, crosswalks are more inconvenient and take longer to cross. Half of the width of narrow streets is dominated by parking, not to mention all of the unsightly lots and parking garages.

Scooters don't cost millions/billions in real estate for parking. They can't use and don't require expensive freeway onramps. They don't cause massive congestion and the corresponding drop in local air quality. All in all I think if you want to compare externalities, scooters win by far over cars, and it's not even close.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#349

Post by stingrae »

kough wrote: post #297
brookside wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not subscribe to the idea stealing=bad?

Is it ok to steal from the rich (nation-state and ultra-wealthy investors) to help the poor (me)? If I could steal a million dollars out of YC's checkbook I would do it in a heartbeat, wouldn't you?

I am pretty surprised to see comments like this on HN. Advocating theft and robbery is not ok.

Re: Lime and Bird are growing rapidly

#350

Post by jayd16 »

pandesmos wrote: post #310
jayd16 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>not sure how I feel about seeing them in piles outside of public schools Kids treat them like shit but what is there to do?

This is the thing that bothers me. They appear to be getting set out in front of my kid’s school (in sets of 4), and it’s the natural inclination for kids to want to run jump and play on them. So now there’s this sort of quandary I have as a parent: do I tell my kids and or other kids to not play on these scooters? And to take care of them? Where should I draw the line? I don’t see them in poor areas of town, so it’s…

I think its about the same as telling your kids not to vandalize vending machines, newspaper boxes and store fronts.
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