Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#341

Post by loveyourmother » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 8:37 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #279

swombat wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my experience visiting Japan and talking to both expats and expat-friendly locals there, I think the issue is more cultural than political. If you live in Japan but don't look Japanese you never really feel welcomed as a Japanese. Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or…

> Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or origins.. Those things are also socially unacceptable in Japan. My experience is that the often discussed "micro-agressions" against foreigners happen about as often in Japan as they do in my own country (US, grew up in Texas). Of course…

>The US is so fucked up that we cannot seem to stop shooting unarmed black men

Twice as many white men are shot by police but I can't remember the last time I saw a national news story about one of them. Name one in recent years you heard covered in the national news. [0] I edited out "unarmed". That ratio slightly favors white males.

>we're separating mothers from babies, and as of last week now tear gassing families at the border.

Everyday, across this beautiful land, we seperate children from their parents for commiting crimes. We have a legal immigration system.

What does Japan do to people who enter illegally? How many refugees did they take in 2017? 20. Out of 20,000 applications. They could do a little more, right? [1]

[0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/police...

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/16/japan-asylum-a...

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#342

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 8:45 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #279

swombat wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my experience visiting Japan and talking to both expats and expat-friendly locals there, I think the issue is more cultural than political. If you live in Japan but don't look Japanese you never really feel welcomed as a Japanese. Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or…

> Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or origins.. Those things are also socially unacceptable in Japan. My experience is that the often discussed "micro-agressions" against foreigners happen about as often in Japan as they do in my own country (US, grew up in Texas). Of course…

[deleted]

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#343

Post by pferde » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 8:46 AM UTC

elliekelly wrote: post #338

eloff wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think both parents (or especially the woman) working is probably the big part of it. But I don't think many people factor the cost of university degrees into their decision (whether they should is another matter)

> I think both parents (or especially the woman) Why do you say especially the woman? Not trying to pick a fight, I'm genuinely curious.

Because traditionally, staying at home taking care of kids has been usually done by women.

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#344

Post by isoskeles » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 8:47 AM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #279

swombat wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on my experience visiting Japan and talking to both expats and expat-friendly locals there, I think the issue is more cultural than political. If you live in Japan but don't look Japanese you never really feel welcomed as a Japanese. Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or…

> Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or origins.. Those things are also socially unacceptable in Japan. My experience is that the often discussed "micro-agressions" against foreigners happen about as often in Japan as they do in my own country (US, grew up in Texas). Of course…

> Many people in the US freeze up if a black person so much as walks by them on the street.

That sounds serious. How many?

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#345

Post by mchaver » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 8:58 AM UTC

laurieg wrote: post #261

jameslk wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan is not a very good proxy due to their strict immigration policies and preference to be an "ethnically homogeneous nation." As you mentioned, other countries can just replenish their head count through relaxed immigration. I'd wager, for example, that the US will remain highly multicultural with looser immigration long term since it's baked into its identity[0], despite some recent policy changes. 0. https://en.…

"Japan has strict immigration policies" is often repeated, but I don't think this is tells the whole story. Some of the policies are very permissive: * If you graduated university and have a 'skilled' job in Japan, you are likely to get a visa. There is no cap on the number of these. There is no language requirement. * If you live in Japan for over 5 years continuously you can apply for citizenship, though you must r…

The other question is, are there really any countries that are easy to immigrate to without the right to abode or right to return (for certain groups)?

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#346

Post by sonnyblarney » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 9:05 AM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #227

iandanforth wrote: post #180

The more interesting thing about this is that it is part of a new type of economics, contraction economics. The global trend toward birth rates below replenishment means that first-world countries are maintaining their population growth through immigration. As some countries embrace restrictions on immigration, and ultimately all countries plateau in their population growth (projected to be around 2100) it means that…

I disagree that there is a significant correlation between expanding population and an expanding economy. In fact there are plenty of examples of countries whose economy expanded way faster than their population, which implies that factors other than population dominate economic growth. (If population was the dominant factor in economic growth, we would see a consistent correlation between the two.) Every day we read…

"I disagree that there is a significant correlation between expanding population and an expanding economy."

In any functioning economy there is obviously a correlation.

Bodies have jobs, generate income, and they buy stuff meaning GDP.

Government spends on social services per body, meaning GDP.

Not only are 'warm bodies' a part of economic growth ... 'warm bodies' are the very basis of economic growth in most of the West! If you take out population growth from US economic data, it looks a little more like Europe. If you normalize for lower rates of children ... that explains a huge amount about lagging economic growth in the West.

Populations that require homes, cars, services, food, mortgages - that's what drives the economy.

So to your point - in a dysfunctional scenario, more bodies means problems, but overall no.

How do you think America became the most powerful entity in the Western world and in some ways in the world? And not Sweden?

The story of American economic growth from 1777 onwards includes a lot of things, but if you measure up against Europe, what mostly stands out is body count.

Also - remember that growth is measured in GDP, not 'efficiency' - so as AI does 'more for less' it's technically 'bad' paradoxically, for the economy, as you point out. But as long as we figure out a way (any way!) for the surpluses to be distributed, they will be spent, hence 'growing economy'.

Canada's economic strategy is fully based on body count. The nations banks drive our strategy, and they can't grow any more through competition or innovation - they can only grow through more mortgages, which come from more bodies. So they push for large scale immigration, which is in their self interest.

'AI' is not how the economy will grow.

A sea of new homes, out to the horizon, with a Starbucks on every corner, an IKEA in every neighbourhood, a Toyota in every driveway, and a dozen prescriptions per home ... this is how our current economy 'grows'.

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#347

Post by SECProto » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 9:09 AM UTC

nroets wrote: post #302

SECProto wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hotels are already cheap in Japan ($60 a night will get you quite a nice business hotel with hot spring in most places I've been) and Airbnb is subject to local restrictions (federal law passed recently allows local governments to place restrictions on Airbnb - you have to get a permission letter from your city Hall to be allowed to list on airbnb - and they can deny you for any reason eg neighbour complaints). Perso…

$60 a night is not cheap. I traveled (cycling) for 3 months in South East Asia and my average hotel bill was $8, some of them brand new hotels.

In addition to what everyone else said about it not being a useful comparison to look at SE Asia, I also wasn't looking at the cheapest options. Capsule hotels would generally be available for half that ($30) and sleeping in a manga cafe would be $10-$20 depending

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#348

Post by sonnyblarney » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 9:09 AM UTC

jameslk wrote: post #218

iandanforth wrote: post #180

The more interesting thing about this is that it is part of a new type of economics, contraction economics. The global trend toward birth rates below replenishment means that first-world countries are maintaining their population growth through immigration. As some countries embrace restrictions on immigration, and ultimately all countries plateau in their population growth (projected to be around 2100) it means that…

Japan is not a very good proxy due to their strict immigration policies and preference to be an "ethnically homogeneous nation." As you mentioned, other countries can just replenish their head count through relaxed immigration. I'd wager, for example, that the US will remain highly multicultural with looser immigration long term since it's baked into its identity[0], despite some recent policy changes. 0. https://en.…

It works well in America and Canada, but ethnic tensions are probably one of the root causes of tension in every other American nation, even Mexico. Everywhere south of the US has kind of a 'soft race war' going on between descendants of White colonialists, ex-black slaves, the indigenous population, the mixed crew, and other ethnic groups. It's a kind of overwhelming systematic ... 'racism' is not the best word ... more like 'systematic racial friction'. It's apparent everywhere, even by just driving through regions you can see it.

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#349

Post by sonnyblarney » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 9:12 AM UTC

swombat wrote: post #269

laurieg wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Japan has strict immigration policies" is often repeated, but I don't think this is tells the whole story. Some of the policies are very permissive: * If you graduated university and have a 'skilled' job in Japan, you are likely to get a visa. There is no cap on the number of these. There is no language requirement. * If you live in Japan for over 5 years continuously you can apply for citizenship, though you must r…

Based on my experience visiting Japan and talking to both expats and expat-friendly locals there, I think the issue is more cultural than political. If you live in Japan but don't look Japanese you never really feel welcomed as a Japanese. Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or…

"you never really feel welcomed as a Japanese."

Well, maybe because you're not Japanese?

A different question is: "Would you feel welcome"

I would consider it weirdly arrogant to go to Japan and then have them ever accept me as 'Japanese'. I would hope that thy are respectful to me, and treat me well, and maybe even 'as a Japanese' but not actually 'Japanese', because - I'm not!

There's a big difference I think between 'rights' and 'cultural attribution', we mix them up a lot in the West.

Re: Japan Is Giving Away 8M Abandoned Houses

#350

Post by fredoliveira » Thu, Nov 29, 2018, 9:15 AM UTC

loveyourmother wrote: post #341

jaredklewis wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Contrast that to countries like most of the West, where at least a solid proportion of people consider it socially unacceptable to discriminate socially based on someone's looks or origins.. Those things are also socially unacceptable in Japan. My experience is that the often discussed "micro-agressions" against foreigners happen about as often in Japan as they do in my own country (US, grew up in Texas). Of course…

>The US is so fucked up that we cannot seem to stop shooting unarmed black men Twice as many white men are shot by police but I can't remember the last time I saw a national news story about one of them. Name one in recent years you heard covered in the national news. [0] I edited out "unarmed". That ratio slightly favors white males. >we're separating mothers from babies, and as of last week now tear gassing familie…

> Everyday, across this beautiful land, we seperate children from their parents for commiting crimes. We have a legal immigration system.

It is possible to have a legal immigration system and to be humane when dealing with people who for some reason wouldn't/couldn't go through it. Especially if it involves kids - as I'm pretty sure they are not to blame on any of this.