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EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

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Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean. GDPR has everything to do with Internet, the Internet has been the whole reason it was created. Without the internet, the previous laws were OK. During the discussions (on state-level politics as well) only the internet was mentioned that frequently along with internet companies such as Facebook and Google, except for the note that it of course affects everything else. Even if GDPR was mer…

Parent is right, but you're right it was created because of it. But it applies to processing of personal data, this is independent of if it happens over the internet or not.

I know, thus the "except for the note that it of course affects everything else" part. However all discussions revolved around the internet and the internet was the sole reason why a change was made.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#342
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the European Parliament (here the body making a decision) is the EU institution that supposedly does not have the "democratic deficit", they are elected by the citizens. So in what way is this different from what we expect in democracies?

Well, first of all I have yet to hear about this vote from any of my local news sources. If I didn't browse hackernews I likely wouldn't know about it. Secondly I don't recall voting for any MEPs, as far as I can tell it's similarly not reported on. Besides given the lack of news about what any of the parties are up to it's hard to say anything about who you should even vote for. Thirdly just because somewhere at the…

> Well, first of all I have yet to hear about this vote from any of my local news sources. If I didn't browse hackernews I likely wouldn't know about it.

Where do you live if I may ask? here in austria it was everywhere before the vote and now new articles with the result.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#343

Oh yeah good luck trying to stop library genesis/scihub/PirateBay with that. Meanwhile everyone else doing business legally will have to suffer while the perpetrators go free. We already have lots of tools to block user access from the EU, time to upgrade them! The EU fail to understand that the internet is inherently free and you can’t regulate it well (unless you’re a dictatorship in China, but you have bigger issu…

This is the real bummer, IMO. It's not even like they're reaching the sites that truly, genuinely don't give a fuck about copyright. The big sites have long implemented all of this, anyway.

It's basically just more bureaucracy if you're running a start-up or mid-sized company and want to do things by the book. Something to worry about, something to fear. I genuinely wonder if copyright holders will make a single cent off this.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#344
Well this sucks a lot, but if I'm reading this right, they at least amended it to be _slightly_ less awful: https://juliareda.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Copyright_Se...

It seems to contain a bunch of amendments that seem to make at least Article 13 a bit less draconian. In particular, 13.2b seems to require a human-reviewed and appealable complaints mechanism.

All in all, it's still very shitty.

I intend to save the list of those who voted for and set a reminder to dig it out when the next EU elections come up. I hope people with more social media presence than I do the same.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if I know what you're talking about. Could you expand on this?

Chans allow anonymous users to upload images and historically this leads into a lot of illegal content, especially stuff like child porn, to be uploaded unless you have strict moderation.

> Chans allow anonymous users to upload images and historically this leads into a lot of illegal content

Moderation over the last years has been strict though. I haven't seen any illegal content on there in ages.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're not wrong, I'm fairly anti-state-overreach so I'm also really unhappy with the Snoopers Charter and just so, so many things my government does. But hey, given two layers of authoritarian rule if I get an option to remove one of them you can be sure I'll take it. Especially if it's the one that I can't affect democratically. > Out of interest, can you name another example where the EU was authoritarian (acting…

Thank you for your thoughtful response. You start by saying that you can't affect the EU democratically (even though you have much more democratic control over your MEP than you do over the House of Lords or your monarch), but then correctly point out that one of the important factors is how localised the decision making is. It's true that your MEP has a wider constituency than your MP, for example, but as I see it,…

> You start by saying that you can't affect the EU democratically (even though you have much more democratic control over your MEP than you do over the House of Lords or your monarch)

This is true, but the Queen's job to sign new laws is purely ceremonial at this point, and while I can't democratically affect the House of Lords, I can affect the House of Commons and the Cabinet. The House of Lords is a bit of a relic at this point and though I don't know of any bad things they've done, I am skeptical of their existence.

> It's true that your MEP has a wider constituency than your MP, for example, but as I see it, the "less democratic" EU is actually undoing the authoritarian tendencies of the British government

This is not the EU's job. It is the remit of the British people to hold our government to account, not an even higher, more abstracted government that is even less accountable to the people. The EU can make good decisions and bad decisions, but in either case it is unaccountable to the people it is supposed to serve.

> I suppose you are saying it is an example of state-overreach, but my understanding is that the quotas are set to avoid over-fishing of British waters

This is the same as above. As an island nation with limited resources we have to manage our ecology and stocks of fish. The EU is not in the right position to do this. Our fishing industry has been suppressed leading to even less job opportunities in the coastal North, but then Norway (which is not an EU member but has mutual fishing agreements with it) is permitted to come in and fish our waters. So you don't even get the theoretical benefit of the EU's legislation in this case, because the EU has handed the supposedly-restricted fishing rights to another country that is only bound by trade agreements, not membership under a unified international court. And I have to ask - who benefits? Because the EU negotiates over all its member states, and this arrangement certainly doesn't do Britain any favours. I did enjoy the pun though ;)

> it could equally be argued that it would be state-overreach for the British government to effectively raise the price of fish to give a subsidy to British fish catchers.

Excluding transportation costs, this might be true. But we're not talking about an open market - the EU licenses which countries can fish British waters. If Norwegian fishing boats are collecting British fish and selling them from Norway, there are two options: 1) they aren't selling them to Britain, leading to a simple drain on our natural resources, and 2) they are selling to Britain, adding transport costs (both fiscal and ecological) to the production of fish, meaning increased costs. I agree with the need to regulate the waters, but it should be Britain that manages its own resources (after all, the incentives are aligned to provide for future generations, 5-year election cycle notwithstanding) by capping the fishing, but choosing for itself which fishing vessels get to harvest our waters. This way Britain can balance its own interests between increasing supply of locally-caught fish, and exchanging use of our natural resources in mutually-beneficial international exchange.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#347
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the European Parliament (here the body making a decision) is the EU institution that supposedly does not have the "democratic deficit", they are elected by the citizens. So in what way is this different from what we expect in democracies?

Well, first of all I have yet to hear about this vote from any of my local news sources. If I didn't browse hackernews I likely wouldn't know about it. Secondly I don't recall voting for any MEPs, as far as I can tell it's similarly not reported on. Besides given the lack of news about what any of the parties are up to it's hard to say anything about who you should even vote for. Thirdly just because somewhere at the…

Turnout for the 2014 European elections was at a historic low

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/elections2014-results/en/turno...

despite claimes on election night that turnout had (very slightly!) increased over the previous election

https://www.politico.eu/article/this-time-its-different/

Election turnout falling consistently as the elected body's powers increase consistently. Not great.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#348
post #92

This decision is one of the many reasons why Europe will never reach the likes of Silicon Valley, no matter how much money will they sink down the "technology" hole (not that the US doesn't have its fair share of dumb legislators, because it has). This continent is a mess in terms of IT, with a few exceptions (London, Berlin, Dublin, some spots in Eastern Europe).

> This continent is a mess in terms of IT, with a few exceptions (London, Berlin, Dublin, some spots in Eastern Europe). So... pretty much like the US (with a few exceptions like Silicon Valley or Austin, Tx)?

I honestly don't understand why people keep comparing the culture of American cities and states to European ones. America is one giant country - the EU isn't. The cultural differences between Detroit and, say, San Francisco is miniscule compared to differences between London and Berlin.

Not every city in America is San Francisco, Seattle, or Austin, but neither one state nor one city is as technologically dysfunctional as their European counterparts.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#349

It's worth noting that this is not a law in the commonly understood sense. It's an EU directive, which requires member states to achieve a required outcome, but leaves the legal implementation up to the individual state. It'll be interesting to see how the member states interpret the language and what legal framework will be used to enforce it.

Member states can be even stupider. I get scared thinking of what a "reasonable interpretation" by some right-wing local government with poor understanding of digital markets would look like.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#350
post #9

This is so sad but kind of expected. EU is run by politicians and the public has very little to no insight. After this goes through I will become a single-issue voter, to leave the EU.

Do you really believe this is something politicians came up with in the first place? This is another example of the classic lobbies-driven political decision where politicians pass legislations as a favour to their friends in corporate A or corporate B. Also, if they think this will fix the revenue problems of the majority of newspaper publishers they are certainly wrong, newspaper are not dying because people read n…

Well, yes. Politicians created the system where it was possible for this to go through without any support from citizens, because they have simply no idea what is going on inside the EU.

TL;DR, politicians created the EU, it currently sucks even if they pass some very good laws sometimes. Now it's time for some very bad laws, the issue is that these laws is so bad the good laws seems very small in comparison.

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