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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#341

Post by r_singh »

archi42 wrote: post #313
r_singh wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also worth noting that it's $3B per year that Google pays Apple though . https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/google-paying-apple-3-billio...

Good point. But I think if Google/Alphabet does not comply, the commission could fine them again. But that's difficult to judge now... All we consumers can do is wait for Google's next move and where it leads from there. But generally, this is a step in the right direction. As much as I am a fan of early Google and the great services they offer, a big part of me doesn't like the privacy-nightmare conglomerate they be…

Yeah I agree. This is a particularly interesting situation because I love part of google while simultaneously am afraid of parts of it as well.

I would be sad if google was beaten out of existence (seems unlikely I know) even though my permissions are probably being abused by google and their effect on me all in all may not be great. However, it makes me happy to see that the EU is working on making google better.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#342

Post by mtgx »

Dayshine wrote: post #327
kyrra wrote: post #321

Google's response to the ruling: https://www.blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/andro...

Oh wow, the arrogance they show with that "It's easy to replace an app" video. Yes, it is, which is why the EU commission have a whole section on explicitly why "default install" is still anti-competitive.

> "It's easy to replace an app"

Also, I don't think all Google apps can be uninstalled. Either way, I've certainly seen apps from other OEM partners that can be removed. That should outright be illegal within the EU. All apps that aren't strictly necessary for the functioning of the case operating system should be uninstallable.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#343

Post by throwrightaway »

archi42 wrote: post #279

Site is under maintanance, Google Cache link (hahaha): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:europa.... //edit: oh, took only a minute or two :) nice work I really like this point: > [Google] has prevented manufacturers wishing to pre-install Google apps from selling even a single smart mobile device running on alternative versions of Android that were not approved by Google (so-called "Android forks")…

Also good to reduce US surveillance in EU.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#344

Post by mtgx »

amelius wrote: post #55

I'm wondering how such a fine actually comes into existence. How does some EU committee get the idea that Google is anti-competitive here? Is this the result of lobbying by competitors? Can we somehow post the EU about instances where companies are being anti-competitive, and get them to take action somehow? Given the enormous amount of anti-competitive behavior we see every day in the news, I can't help but feel thi…

> How does some EU committee get the idea that Google is anti-competitive here?

I imagine they read the antitrust law and then applied it. I could be wrong, though. Maybe it's because "they hate America for its freedoms."

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#345

Post by teamhappy »

archi42 wrote: post #279

Site is under maintanance, Google Cache link (hahaha): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:europa.... //edit: oh, took only a minute or two :) nice work I really like this point: > [Google] has prevented manufacturers wishing to pre-install Google apps from selling even a single smart mobile device running on alternative versions of Android that were not approved by Google (so-called "Android forks")…

Same press release but in PDF form: http://europa.eu/newsroom/rapid-failover/ip-18-4581_en.pdf

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#346

Post by throwrightaway »

endorphone wrote: post #305
Dayshine wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's read the law: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... >Article 102 >Any abuse by one or more undertakings of a dominant position within the internal market or in a substantial part of it shall be prohibited as incompatible with the internal market in so far as it may affect trade between Member States. >Such abuse may, in particular, consist in: >b) limiting production, markets or techni…

How is that not clearly breaching d? They're a part of the same suite of apps that provide the "Android experience" (Google experience, whatever -- the thing that most consumers think of when they consider Android). They manifestly have a profound connection with each other. And let's be clear here lest there be any confusion -- zero customers want a vendor to do anything different, and the only reason some vendors w…

Those arguments on the part of Google sound like they're trying to use their fuzzy branding terms to blurry what's actually happening.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#347

Post by diffeomorphism »

kyrra wrote: post #321

Google's response to the ruling: https://www.blog.google/around-the-globe/google-europe/andro...

Adresses exactly none of the three points they were fined other?

> The decision ignores the fact that Android phones compete with iOS phones,

Except as explicitly stated in the decision.

> This is possible thanks to simple rules that ensure technical compatibility, no matter what the size or shape of the device. No phone maker is even obliged to sign up to these rules

Except for the very definition of anti-trust and monopoly and surely just by conincidence totally ignoring the three points.

> Android’s compatibility rules avoid this,

And nobody claimed that was a problem, but whatabout... .

> If you prefer other apps—or browsers, or search engines—to the preloaded ones, you can easily disable or delete them, and choose other apps instead,

Except manufacturers are contractually forbidden from doing that and defaults are so unimportant that google explicitly puts them as contractual obligations...

> Phone makers don’t have to include our services; and they’re also free to pre-install competing apps alongside ours

Don't have to include..exceot if they need access to google play, which is what this whole decision was about...

Can they please hire better PR people? That is embarassing to read.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#349

Post by Dayshine »

mtgx wrote: post #342
Dayshine wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, the arrogance they show with that "It's easy to replace an app" video. Yes, it is, which is why the EU commission have a whole section on explicitly why "default install" is still anti-competitive.

> "It's easy to replace an app" Also, I don't think all Google apps can be uninstalled. Either way, I've certainly seen apps from other OEM partners that can be removed. That should outright be illegal within the EU. All apps that aren't strictly necessary for the functioning of the case operating system should be uninstallable.

The gif shows them removing the shortcut.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#350

Post by cwills »

xg15 wrote: post #213
repolfx wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably wouldn't. Do you imagine the EU would force every ISP to block Google web search, Gmail, etc? Beyond being technically difficult I do not believe the EU currently has the power to create a Great Firewall of Europe like that.

Why would the EU do that? The EU demands fines, nothing else. If Google wanted to leave the market to not pay them, it would be their job to geoblock every EU IP from using Google services.

Doesnt make sense, if google didn’t geoblock EU IP addresses how would the EU react? Issue another fine which Google won’t pay?

A similar analogy would be like the US blocking their citizens from traveling to North Korea. But then having direct flights from LA to Pyongyang and expecting North Korea to enforce the ban of US citizens at their customs. It’s not their responsibility..

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