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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#341

I like machines that are built to take a beating. My penultimate laptop was an HP Mini 101; I only replaced it on a whim, and still use it from time to time. The keys have been worn to be smooth, concave and most are missing the printed text. When I last opened it up to add an SSD a suprising amount of sand came pouring out; having been taken to many beaches, tossed in bags, and generally used outdoors it had accumul…

> Thinkpad X140e

woop, woop!

the design where the display is _least_ fragile part of the laptop is brilliant: wins over removing extra ounces or millimeters. i wish more laptops were built this way and suspect the only reason they aren't is because it doesn't look as "hi-tech" as some of lenovo's other laptops.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#342
I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle.

The same thing confuses me with smartphones. Everyone keeps making these bacteria and finger print magnets thinner... the minute you drop it, it's shattered or unuseable... and so then you're buying a case to protect it from scratches and shatter... so what's the point of making it thinner in the first place? Gimmicks IMO just to sell things year over year without adding real value or actual features.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#343

Apple biggest UX failures always stem from putting form before function. There is a lower limit to thinness/lightness before consumers just don't care, and it was passed long ago. There was great progress made with the unibody Macbook Pros and the Macbook Airs but these latest models are so thin that it's actually annoying and leads to issues like poor battery life, lack of repair-ability, and malfunctioning keyboard…

The touch bar is another example of this. I always hit the wrong keys, even after a year I'll end up hitting ~/` instead of the escape key, I routing hit "mute" instead of volume down (or I'll hit up instead).

Also: the totally different bar UI you are exposed to when in sleep mode.

I understand why it has to be so, security wise, for application functions there but it'd be nice if the sound controls were consistent...

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#344
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched from Windows to Linux on my work Dell and battery life is the same. I go to standby on lid closed and shutdown at the end of the day. Bootup to login takes 20 seconds so I don't bother with hibernate.

The issue for me is that hibernate saves user state (desktop, apps, edit state), reboot doesn't. I expect a desktop session to live months. IOW: Your solution may not suite all.

What's wrong with hibernating and suspending? It's been two months since I last rebooted my Linux laptop, I typically only do it when upgrading the kernel. I agree it would be nice to keep session state after a reboot, but it's a very minor annoyance. Some window managers such as i3, do at least let one persist window configurations.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#345

Having interfaced with Apple in a different way (apart from owning a new MBP and an iPhone X) I'd say the issue is, and continues to be, growing pains. They're certainly losing the lead in software engineer talent (giving it away to whom, I'm not sure). But the single most horrible experience I've had with Apple in the last year was trying to get software published on the App Store. That's a department that's so larg…

I wouldn't really say those are the reasons why. The app store and code signing have been fairly bureaucratic to deal with from day one. It's actually improved compared to the initial years from turn around times measuring in a day or two vs a week or two. I remember doing such tricks such as resubmitting the same binary and it getting passed. It really is a dice roll. Compile times comes from swift and promoting it…

>Swift compile times have been improving as time goes on.

Swift compile times will never be close to ObjC or C compile times, no matter how much engineering goes into it. This is because of how the language is designed, it requires a typechecker which solves an NP hard constraint solving problem.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#346

Apple biggest UX failures always stem from putting form before function. There is a lower limit to thinness/lightness before consumers just don't care, and it was passed long ago. There was great progress made with the unibody Macbook Pros and the Macbook Airs but these latest models are so thin that it's actually annoying and leads to issues like poor battery life, lack of repair-ability, and malfunctioning keyboard…

The iOS UI is similarly crippled. I got my parents an iPad as they were moving countries and needed a small portable device that needed no maintenance. To Apple's credit, the iPad is basically impossible to screw up software-wise. But even the initial setup UI places form over function. Basically there is no way to tell what is a button and sometimes you have to click the word at the top to move on and sometimes the…

> Basically there is no way to tell what is a button

Since Jony Ive decides alone. Under Jobs the buttons were drawn in the UI.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#347

> In the meantime, let’s give some other companies a shot. Dell and HP have gorgeous, reliable, repairable flagship laptops that are getting rave reviews. Right now, I think they’ve done more to earn your business than Apple has. The laptop mentioned in the "rave review" link is an elitebook 840 g5. I have been using the 840 g1 as my primary laptop for the last 4 years and it really is a sturdy device. The hardware i…

Windows is so terrible, though. I could never go back.

I wish these comments would at least mention one thing that is so terrible.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#348
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that in some jurisdictions (e.g. Australia), consumer protection law extends beyond manufacturer warranties by establishing consumer guarantees, e.g. a guarantee that products will be of acceptable quality, and that they will be reasonably fit for any disclosed or represented purpose.[0] This often extends beyond the period of the express manufacturer warranty. On a semi-related note, Apple has recently…

Doesn't Apple often snob this laws? Have they changed their behaviour? If I remember correctly, in EU, up to just one or two years ago they were refusing to service products under warranty older than one year if you didn't have Apple Care even though the law mandates a 2 year warranty period.

>>even though the law mandates a 2 year warranty period.

The law mandates no such thing and this is an extremely common misunderstanding of how EU consumer production works.

EU consumer protection law gives you protection against manufacturing defects for up to 6 years after purchase(it's 2 years only on specific items - in general, it's 6 years).

The absolutely key word here is manufacturing defects - if you have a fault with your laptop, fridge, TV, whatever, within the first 6 months after buying it, then this law assumes the defect existed at the time of manufacturing and the manufacturer has to fix it. But, after the initial 6 months, the responsibility on proving that the defect is due to faulty manufacturing is on the customer.

So yes, you can absolutely bring in your broken laptop to apple after 2 years of buying it, without buying extra Apple Care, and ask them to fix it - but it's up to you to prove that it's broken because of a manufacturing issue. That's why Apple "snubs" at it - in vast majority of cases it's very hard for the consumer to prove that the laptop is broken because of an error in manufacturing, and not because the part has worn out.

Having said that - there are some countries in EU(for example Poland) which require that all electrical devices are covered by a full 2 year manufacturer warranty, and indeed - all Apple hardware sold in Poland comes with a 2 year warranty as standard. Which highlights another issue - EU laws are not as homogeneous as an outsider might think - for example, in UK if your product is replaced under warranty, the replacement is only covered for the duration of the original warranty. But in Poland, the law states that if an item is replaced under warranty, then the replacement has to be covered for a "fresh" duration, so a full replacement resets the time counter on the warranty.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/gua...

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short of fitting a keyboard condom, or iPad (no doubt called TouchBoard) where the keyboard used to be, what can they do? Make the battery thinner so they can get sane key travel back within the case without increasing overall thickness? So I expect to see a couple more releases of ultra thin keyboards with various fix mechanisms before they accept that rules of physics and dust apply to them too. :)

> what can they do? Make the battery thinner so they can get sane key travel back within the case without increasing overall thickness? Go back to previous thickness; it wasn't that bad, and thin for the most powerful portable they sell isn't necessarily a good thing. They could even couple it with advancements in battery tech to finally put 32GB on their laptop.

They wouldn't even have to go back to the previous thickness. The current MBP should be the MBA and then the MBP can be an actual pro machine.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#350

I honestly don't understand all these quality sacrifices just to make things thinner. It makes the product actually feel somewhat cheap and brittle. The same thing confuses me with smartphones. Everyone keeps making these bacteria and finger print magnets thinner... the minute you drop it, it's shattered or unuseable... and so then you're buying a case to protect it from scratches and shatter... so what's the point o…

> and so then you're buying a case to protect it from scratches and shatter... so what's the point of making it thinner in the first place?

I agree, also in terms of material. I'd love to buy a plastic phone with some bezel that doesn't shatter easily. The Nokia Lumias a couple years back (e.g. the Lumia 800[0]) were good-looking and super robust.

But manufacturers obviously don't have much incentive to make hardware more durable, unless customers explicitly look out for that. And currently, many people tend to buy (high-end) phones rather for prestige reasons than actual usefulness.

[0]: http://phonesdata.com/files/models/Nokia-Lumia-800-307.jpg

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