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Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

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Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#341

Post by robbyt »

FreakyT wrote: post #87

This issue reminds me of a key permission iOS gives control over while Android (even post-Nougat) doesn't: The distinction between allowing an app to use location while the app is open versus anytime . Android makes no distinction between these two states, which opens up the ability for many apps (not just Google's) to enable automatic stalking mode. Take Yelp, for example. I do want it to be able to access my locati…

I assumed disallowing background activity in Android prevents this, does anyone know more about this?

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#342

Post by jdietrich »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #282
Raphmedia wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't get in the details because I'm no neurologist but there are a lot of news stories out there about how taxi drivers end up with a great memories from having to remember all the routes. There are also stories about how taxi drivers using GPS don't have all those memory improvements. I agree that news stories are not the best source of accurate scientific information so take it with a grain of salt. https://www.…

> there are a lot of news stories out there about how taxi drivers end up with a great memories from having to remember all the routes The question is, does that do them any good? It might help them in the rare case there's a problem with navigation data, but 99% of the time it's a wasted effort, and personally, I purposefully prefer taxis/transport services that use navigation. My own opinion is that we should treat…

>The question is, does that do them any good? It might help them in the rare case there's a problem with navigation data, but 99% of the time it's a wasted effort

Yes, very much so. The road layout in London is absolutely insane, because the city was established in AD 43. Finding efficient routes requires a great deal of local knowledge and contextual understanding.

Black cab drivers are extremely good at minimaxing journey time. If they have a choice between a route that always takes 30 minutes or a route that sometimes takes 25 minutes and sometimes takes an hour, they'll usually choose the former.

They're required to memorise both routes and landmarks, so they're phenomenally good at fuzzy matching for destinations. If you ask to go to "that place where all the goths and weirdos hang out", they'll take you straight to Camden Lock. They have an uncanny knack for getting confused tourists back to their hotel, based on the scantest of descriptions in the most broken of English.

Uber has a role to play in London, but it's undoubtedly an inferior option. Black cab drivers are a part of the fabric of London and it'd be a tragedy if they were pushed out of business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws-eyqWHNPs

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#343

Post by khedoros1 »

urda wrote: post #294
erispoe wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Google Pixel 2 starts at $649. Pixel prices are comparable with iPhones.

iPhones and Apple have demonstrated that privacy is a top concern for their users. Google and their Pixel devices, not so much.

Yes, but the comment you responded to was probably in reference to saying that Pixel devices don't cost much, not about the relative benefits of Apple phones.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#344

Post by kuschku »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #51
kuschku wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mobile carrier is a local server hoster that also happens to operate a fiber and DSL network in the city, and a small 3G network. They don’t track – I’ve talked with them, personally. And in the future, with the Librem phones, we’ll also be able to ensure there is no tracking on the device side.

Hmm, they don't intentionally track or keep tracking data, but for cell phones to work the network _has_ to know what tower you are next to (or really what 'cell' you are in, why it's called a 'cellular phone'), to deliver a phone call or txt to you. What happens if they get a law enforcement request with warrant/subpoena? I bet the data is there to be delivered. If they aren't _very_ intentional about scrubbing it,…

> What happens if they get a law enforcement request with warrant/subpoena? I bet the data is there to be delivered. If they aren't _very_ intentional about scrubbing it, it's maybe there in some historical logs too.

Under current German and EU law, they can only keep logs as long as technically necessary. If a warrant, specific to me, personally, exists, they can collect future connection info. And I’m okay with that – requiring a warrant specifically to be written for me, specifically signed by a judge, and in a way that they can’t be rubberstamped is okay, and about the level of surveillance that is a reasonable tradeoff.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#345

Post by khedoros1 »

abiox wrote: post #331
stinos wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First I was like "no, it does serve the common good". But on second thought: replay to 30 years ago, and there weren't really problems. Word-of-mouth combined with places closing because they were just too bad too survive worked fine. So maybe the common good doesn't need serving the Google way.. Possible real benefit is you can get super-detailed reviews from many different people. But I'm not sure there really is a…

these days, i wonder if the dynamics of 'word of mouth' is still operationally the same. the internet is isolating and alienating in it's own way, so i'm uncertain how well the 'old ways' (circa all of ~20 years ago) still function.

If I'm visiting somewhere, I usually ask for recommendations from someone I trust (family, or whoever I'm staying with). Yelp reviews and such are good if I don't have any other source of information about the place, though.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#346

Post by khedoros1 »

jonathanyc wrote: post #317
saulrh wrote: post #42

I'm going to be completely honest here: If these things were behind a configuration option and defaulted to off, I'd have gone into my phone and turned that option on. I want to leave reviews for restaurants as I'm walking out of them - it serves the common good and doing it immediately is better for memory. I want to remember to download offline maps when I'm about to go somewhere where I won't have coverage. My mem…

And I tried to turn the creepy Google Maps prompts off but could not. Why should these be opt-out —- should others be tricked into sacrificing their privacy for your convenience?

I found them buried in some menus that I didn't see last time I tried to opt out. Settings->Notifications->Your Contributions. There were about a dozen things that I decided to turn off, in addition to my previous choices regarding deletion of my location history, home address, etc.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#347

Post by khedoros1 »

rhizome wrote: post #322
geofft wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They registered with the nearest cell towers, and ask them to watch signal strength so they can make handover work. This is coarse location information (since the company that runs the cell towers knows where their own cell towers, and uses your current tower registration to figure out which cell tower to send a call to), and can be made a little more fine-grained if you use signal strength from the various towers an…

And that's fine, but none of this addresses the assertion that cellphones can't work without GPS tracking.

GPS tracking is a complete red herring; you're focusing on the wrong thing. No one ever claimed that GPS was necessary. Here's the statement that was made: "Your cell phone cannot function without actually knowing where you are (to some approximation)".

That "approximation" is: "Which cell towers can hear your phone transmit, and how strong is the signal?" Your cell phone would work just as well as a phone if you disabled the GPS chip, but your location can be estimated by triangulating from signal strength. It's not nearly as precise, or as accurate, as a GPS-provided location would be, of course.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#348

Post by photojosh »

ciconia wrote: post #302
saulrh wrote: post #42

I'm going to be completely honest here: If these things were behind a configuration option and defaulted to off, I'd have gone into my phone and turned that option on. I want to leave reviews for restaurants as I'm walking out of them - it serves the common good and doing it immediately is better for memory. I want to remember to download offline maps when I'm about to go somewhere where I won't have coverage. My mem…

> My memory is terrible enough that I can't do those things myself. I get that all those services are helpful to someone who's easily distracted, but I'm afraid using them is the last thing that's going to help your memory. It just makes you more dependent. Personally I prefer not to use Google's auto-complete, I can spell just fine thank you. We're bloody human beings, we're supposed to be like the smartest thing on…

I misspell words in Google searches all the time. I can either take the 3-5 seconds to correct it myself, or just hit search knowing that the big G will know exactly what I meant anyway. I would say an aspect of being "smart" is not wasting time on unimportant details?

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#349

Post by khedoros1 »

deong wrote: post #184
geofft wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that - the behavior I object to is not solely behavior that the provider thinks is malicious / unethical. The roommate in my example who barges in on my phone calls could believe they were genuinely contributing to whatever conversation I was having on the phone and helping me out, but they would still be creepy. So I don't see this as about whether the provider has "good" or "bad" intentions; I see thi…

It does seem like that is the problem a lot of people have. Google does explicitly ask you for permission to do this. And whenever someone in this thread points that out, someone replies with some variation of "yeah, but they probably do it anyway". Well...OK then I guess. There's not much of a conversation that can happen after that, but you do you.

I explicitly and repeatedly try to deny Google access to my location. I still get requests for reviews of places I've just visited, suggestions to make my photos public, notifications of the traffic on my way home, and so on.

My location history is blank, and set not to gather more data, but I still got those notifications, until I turned them off earlier today. I suspect that one of the times I turned on location, that it asked to also "activate Google Location Services to improve accuracy", or something.

> someone replies with some variation of "yeah, but they probably do it anyway".

My variation is "I've checked the 3 places I know to look, and I'll have to watch the New Features lists of future OS releases to find all of the things I'd like to opt out of."

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#350

Post by khedoros1 »

Sephr wrote: post #52
Angostura wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On iOS Settings > Privacy > Location Services > System Services Then turn off everything in the Product Improvement section, turn off Significant Locations and anything else in there you don't want. Done

This doesn't prevent your cell carrier from tracking you.

Your cell carrier can't deliver your calls if they don't track you somehow.
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