A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm • Hacker News Board

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#341

Post by graycat » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 6:26 AM UTC

clord wrote: post #112

We did this. My wife has a masters in microbio, and I worked at IBM on their C++ and for Fortran compilers for about 8 years (yay std::atomics). I still do remote contract work to help pay for upgrades to the farm. Would be nice to get one of my side-projects finished and start pumping out some income streams, but it's not a big rush anymore. I have a point of sale system built with React and Haskell that integrates…

My FiL was a farmer. He farmed 88 acres in NE Indiana. He raised chickens, eventually 40,000 at a time.

The work was hard beyond belief. To make the farm pay, he bought used farm equipment from farmers who failed, built his own buildings, mixed his own feed, and did well in marketing to find buyers.

He used USDA Extension advice and research on chicken breeding, nutrition, and disease control. When he started, progress in these three made chicken raising suddenly a hot field. But eventually the business mostly moved to the US South with warmer winters and cheaper labor.

He then was able to get a good job in the local county seat: He became the head of the local Rural Electric Membership Cooperative (REMC). In part he got that job because he was respected in the community from his participation in the church, the Bank BoD, Lions, the school board, etc.

For the land, he leased that year by year to someone with good, large scale equipment farming 1000 or so leased acres.

At one time, 90+% of the US population lived on farms. Now it's 10-%. Farmer productivity has made fantastic gains.

So, now, it's tough to make much money farming. One approach is specialized products for high end markets, maybe pheasants, ducks, goat cheese, mushrooms, etc.

There's a lot nice about farm living, but life can be nearly as nice in rural areas still near a town and with work not in farming. A good Internet connection can eliminate some of the effects of a lot of geographic distances.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#342

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 6:30 AM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #243

clord wrote: post #112

We did this. My wife has a masters in microbio, and I worked at IBM on their C++ and for Fortran compilers for about 8 years (yay std::atomics). I still do remote contract work to help pay for upgrades to the farm. Would be nice to get one of my side-projects finished and start pumping out some income streams, but it's not a big rush anymore. I have a point of sale system built with React and Haskell that integrates…

I grew up in a rural community where farming was basically the only industry. It's easy to talk about how awesome it is when you basically are selling insanely overpriced boutique goods (organic, free-range, etc) to yuppies who are willing to pay triple for their calories. Once enough people do this, the prices fall and you're just another farmer, scraping by. I grew up working on farms. It's not romantic to me in an…

> Once enough people do this, the prices fall and you're just another farmer, scraping by.

You’re assuming that the bulk of the market always has to be cheap commodity goods. But the idea behind the artisanal movement is that both sides of the market will change. More small producers will produce more high quality goods and more consumers will pay high prices to buy them. Both sides need to grow in synchrony.

Maybe you can argue the dominance of low quality commodity foods is inevitable. I’d love to see that argument.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#343

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 6:38 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #327

MAGZine wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends where you live, and what you farm. In the case of e.g. cereal crops in the north, there are 4-6 months where you can do little beyond some maintenance, buying/selling equipment, planning next year's crop, etc. that means there is plenty of time for vacations. You are right that during seeding or harvest (especially), all bets for travel are off. But, it is incorrect to imply that because you farm, you ought t…

Animals need taking care of every day year-round. There's very few homesteaders who don't have at least some egg-laying chickens. I have a feeling you're thinking more about industrial-scale monoculture farmers, but that's not what the linked article is talking about.

Chickens are pretty easy though. You can pay some neighborhood teenagers to take care of the flock while you’re in Aruba.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#344

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 6:40 AM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #321

clord wrote: post #112

We did this. My wife has a masters in microbio, and I worked at IBM on their C++ and for Fortran compilers for about 8 years (yay std::atomics). I still do remote contract work to help pay for upgrades to the farm. Would be nice to get one of my side-projects finished and start pumping out some income streams, but it's not a big rush anymore. I have a point of sale system built with React and Haskell that integrates…

> I like working from home and having no childcare expenses. I worry that with a young child, we'd still have childcare expenses - except that instead of paying with money, we'd be paying with our time. My wife and I discovered, like many parents probably do, that raising a child is fucking hard. We love her, we wouldn't trade her for the world, and it's fun, but it's the kind of fun you have while camping, or hiking…

[deleted]

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#345

Post by erikpukinskis » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 6:42 AM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #321

clord wrote: post #112

We did this. My wife has a masters in microbio, and I worked at IBM on their C++ and for Fortran compilers for about 8 years (yay std::atomics). I still do remote contract work to help pay for upgrades to the farm. Would be nice to get one of my side-projects finished and start pumping out some income streams, but it's not a big rush anymore. I have a point of sale system built with React and Haskell that integrates…

> I like working from home and having no childcare expenses. I worry that with a young child, we'd still have childcare expenses - except that instead of paying with money, we'd be paying with our time. My wife and I discovered, like many parents probably do, that raising a child is fucking hard. We love her, we wouldn't trade her for the world, and it's fun, but it's the kind of fun you have while camping, or hiking…

You’re doing a specific high intensity form of childcare. There are lower intensity approaches. When full time child care was the norm, parents didn’t fuss over their kids. “Is she dying or soaking in shit/piss? Ok, then she’s fine for an hour”

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#346

Post by sah2ed » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 7:30 AM UTC

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #107

astura wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say you don't buy for lifestyle reasons but then go on to describe lifestyle reasons for your purchase: "animals that are loved like family" "helping [small farmers] make a living doing something that is good for everyone" "supporting people who aren't shitting on everyone's future." These are all lifestyle choices. You make your purchase not just because of the product but because of your identity, feelings, and…

> These are all lifestyle choices. You make your purchase not just because of the product but because of your identity, feelings, and values. I think it's the other way around. A product can have such good marketing that it gives the illusion of identity, feelings, and values - for example, fair trade coffee.

I think the grandparent point was about buying commodity goods from not just any seller but a seller who's values aligns with theirs.

What you talked about is the whole point of good marketing -- to allow people who are not already customers make the connection to products they should be buying.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#347

Post by naavis » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 7:43 AM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #342

JPKab wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a rural community where farming was basically the only industry. It's easy to talk about how awesome it is when you basically are selling insanely overpriced boutique goods (organic, free-range, etc) to yuppies who are willing to pay triple for their calories. Once enough people do this, the prices fall and you're just another farmer, scraping by. I grew up working on farms. It's not romantic to me in an…

> Once enough people do this, the prices fall and you're just another farmer, scraping by. You’re assuming that the bulk of the market always has to be cheap commodity goods. But the idea behind the artisanal movement is that both sides of the market will change. More small producers will produce more high quality goods and more consumers will pay high prices to buy them. Both sides need to grow in synchrony. Maybe y…

There is a huge number of people who can barely afford to buy cheap food now, let alone expensive "artisanal" food.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#348

Post by roel_v » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 8:05 AM UTC

pajaroide wrote: post #305

JPKab wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a rural community where farming was basically the only industry. It's easy to talk about how awesome it is when you basically are selling insanely overpriced boutique goods (organic, free-range, etc) to yuppies who are willing to pay triple for their calories. Once enough people do this, the prices fall and you're just another farmer, scraping by. I grew up working on farms. It's not romantic to me in an…

If I did it someday I wouldn't be thinking about making money, just being self-sufficient and growing enough food for me and my family. If I could sell some that's great but that's not the objective.

Where will you get clothing, gas, spare parts, school supplies, internet/phone connection, healthcare? There's more to self-sufficiency than eating.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#349

Post by discreteevent » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 9:20 AM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #343

CydeWeys wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Animals need taking care of every day year-round. There's very few homesteaders who don't have at least some egg-laying chickens. I have a feeling you're thinking more about industrial-scale monoculture farmers, but that's not what the linked article is talking about.

Chickens are pretty easy though. You can pay some neighborhood teenagers to take care of the flock while you’re in Aruba.

We had about 20 chickens and this is exactly what we did. Not sure why you got downvoted.

Re: A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs to farm

#350

Post by yuhong » Sat, Nov 25, 2017, 9:24 AM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #243

clord wrote: post #112

We did this. My wife has a masters in microbio, and I worked at IBM on their C++ and for Fortran compilers for about 8 years (yay std::atomics). I still do remote contract work to help pay for upgrades to the farm. Would be nice to get one of my side-projects finished and start pumping out some income streams, but it's not a big rush anymore. I have a point of sale system built with React and Haskell that integrates…

I grew up in a rural community where farming was basically the only industry. It's easy to talk about how awesome it is when you basically are selling insanely overpriced boutique goods (organic, free-range, etc) to yuppies who are willing to pay triple for their calories. Once enough people do this, the prices fall and you're just another farmer, scraping by. I grew up working on farms. It's not romantic to me in an…

But in the long term, even local farming is probably a better idea than the current debt-based economy that depends on imported goods from for example China, especially when even central farming with long distance shipping of foods has its costs.