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Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

economist.com

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Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#341

Post by avasylev »

ransom1538 wrote: post #108

>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…

I don't think roofers are good example, not sure where you live, but last summer I got roofers scheduled in a week (Boston area). By locally known construction company, I got estimate and contract by American owner/sales man - he probably does well, but the actual work was done by Brazilian crew, which I'm guessing was mostly illegal immigrants likely paid less than minimum wage. From my observations with neighbors and friends, all roof work done in the area is by Brazilian crews (I don't know why Brazilian specifically, but that how it is). Good luck competing wit them. Another anecdote example is small framing company owner (originally from Russia), mostly hires illegal Russian immigrants who work for near minimum wage. The owner may do well, but not the rest of the crew.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#342

Post by warcher »

billmalarky wrote: post #257
lostlogin wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the drug testing bs. How is that relevant? If the worker is present, is sober, and not hungover what business is it of the employers what the employee does on their own time? The drugs that are readily detectable are mostly the ones that don’t matter too, while the ones that are more concerning (to me anyway) are either not tested for or are not detectable fairly fast. And alcohol is ok to abuse. Why? It would…

It is BS, but I was under the impression it's more a CYA strategy for liability if a worker has an accident that puts the company at risk. IE imagine a roofer drops a shingle on someone's head, accidents happen and the roofer was sober but if they can't pass a drug test the company could be in serious hot water in a negligence lawsuit. BS runs downhill, so to speak.

You can also deny workman's comp claims if somebody blows a drug test. They are powerfully financially incentivized to fish for a hot sample in the case of an accident.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#343

Post by [deleted] »

southphillyman wrote: post #189
ransom1538 wrote: post #108

>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…

Where can one go to learn these "blue collar" skills? As a recent home owner I'm learning first hand how valuable these skills are by way of my wallet. Seems like most people I meet who do these kinds of jobs were "born into it", and learned by helping a family member who was already in the industry. Are there IIT type schools which teach these kinds of things on a part time basis?

[deleted]

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#344

Post by tooltalk »

jondubois wrote: post #269
opportune wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always read these ridiculously high salaries and laugh. Your average HVAC worker is not making $400k. I do know people in construction/HVAC/plumbers/electricians and it's the bosses making that money, not the grunt workers. The people on the front lines still make good money, for some easily approaching $100k/year, so there's not really a need for embellishment. That isn't to say that it's unattainable, but it's ak…

$400k is what senior executives of major multinational companies get paid. It's also what top surgeons get paid. I highly doubt that blue collar workers get anywhere near that much. If they did, everyone would try to work in that industry because the barrier to entry is comparatively very low.

Well, in NYC, senior execs at major multinational companies and top surgeons aren't the only ones making $400K.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/10/04/why-shoul...

Yes, these are blue collar workers.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#345

Post by warcher »

module0000 wrote: post #246
chrisbennet wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They say "There are no bad dogs, just bad owners." I think the problems are cultural. (a) Two working parents or a single parent family may result in children "being raised by wolves" to some extent. These are good parents/people but child rearing is a time intensive business. (b) Lack of jobs for young people. In my neighborhood, a lot of lawn mowing jobs are done by services instead of the neighborhood kid. The "en…

That's a good list...a lot of it rings true, especially point B. The chances for me to work when I was young were everywhere . I did mow lawns, I raked leaves, painted houses, and every other odd job that a 13 year old would be allowed to do. Now I imagine explaining to my friends or wife that I hired a 13 year old to paint our house. With 0/0 stars on google, angies list, etc. It's hard for young people to "break in…

It's funny- I was an unlicensed grey market house painter for a while in college. I booked most of my jobs while standing on top of a ladder, where somebody would stroll up asking me if I'd do their house next.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#346

Post by fredgrott »

it's just a repeat...something goes up and everyone jumps not realizing that the boiling water has already started to simmer...I am referring to the general lack of economic growth per country...the longer that goes on..the worse the boiling water will feel at the end..will we be boiled or will we finally understand our grave future economic peril

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#347

Post by sillysaurus3 »

VLM wrote: post #338
lostlogin wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the drug testing bs. How is that relevant? If the worker is present, is sober, and not hungover what business is it of the employers what the employee does on their own time? The drugs that are readily detectable are mostly the ones that don’t matter too, while the ones that are more concerning (to me anyway) are either not tested for or are not detectable fairly fast. And alcohol is ok to abuse. Why? It would…

stealth intelligence test. For a variety of interesting historical reasons, the government hates intelligence tests as a hiring criteria and this is the blue collar stealth/workaround IQ test. Its the blue collar equivalent of fizzbuzz or a gitlab repo. Look, you got one task, one task only, it's not even hard to figure out, do not, repeat, do not, get high the week or two before your pee test. That simple. There are…

Some smokers are smart, though. I wonder if it's another kind of test?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#348

Post by Consultant32452 »

lostlogin wrote: post #250
danielvf wrote: post #9

I worked with small / medium manufacturers in the prosperous part of the Southeast. Hiring is brutal currently. Last week one company setup interviews with 20 possible new workers. One showed up for his interview, and one wandered in the next day. 18 nonshows. Another local company is seeing 50% of new hires failing their first drug test. Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of sho…

I hate the drug testing bs. How is that relevant? If the worker is present, is sober, and not hungover what business is it of the employers what the employee does on their own time? The drugs that are readily detectable are mostly the ones that don’t matter too, while the ones that are more concerning (to me anyway) are either not tested for or are not detectable fairly fast. And alcohol is ok to abuse. Why? It would…

Every white collar job I've held in the last decade had mandatory drug tests.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#349

Post by linkregister »

Retric wrote: post #222
wingspar wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more to do with liability/lawsuits and insurance premiums than drug war.

You can get a DoD Clarence without a drug test. Mass testing is often not about Drugs as much as a proxy for other things.

Which Clarence can you get without a drug test?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#350

Post by tootie »

thanatropism wrote: post #29

This comment (not by me; the poster name isn't even visible anymore): > Illegal border crossings on the southern border are down 78% and blue collar wages are rising. Of course correlation does not equal causation, but when there are fewer available workers to hire/train and demand remains constant, wages tend to rise. was marked dead. Why? Is the illegal crossing number wrong/fake news?

I think the 78% number is dubious, but I've seen numbers in that range. It's based on apprehensions which is a proxy for estimating crossings. It's also been going down steadily for many years and hasn't taken any sharp turn recently. Border crossings also don't reflect total migration via all pathways.

I'd imagine the direct correlation is the ratio of US wages to Mexican wages. US wages have been poor for so long, migrants see less benefit. Migration might go on the upswing as wages rise and jobs are harder to fill.

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