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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#341

Post by blub »

endorphone wrote: post #321
eridius wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative. Apple has demonstrated time and time again their commitment to privacy and to protecting user data. Apple does not see user data as something to be hoarded. They see user data as a liability and work very hard to collect as little as possible in order to provide the services they do. The idea that Apple is going to discard all of th…

Apple has demonstrated time and time again their commitment to privacy and to protecting user data. Google's entire business is carefully balanced on user trust. Anyone who posits some naive "they're an ad company" nonsense is just muddying the waters. Google is a user-trust company in a variety of spheres, and without that trust they would be annihilated. Apple does not see user data as something to be hoarded I've…

Good point about Microsoft, they went full Google. But they were much better at privacy before changing course.

Apple is also much better at privacy now. Maybe they'll also change course and then we might as well stop using smartphones, cause we're being treated like sheep.

The non-Siri Apple machine learning is happening on device. This is something that Google would consider doing for 5s, before all in the meeting would start laughing and they'd go for uploading everything.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#342

Post by blub »

endorphone wrote: post #334
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Siri is so far behind Amazon and Google's voice assistants that if they're Hoovering up the datas, they're doing it wrong. I'm a (mostly) happy [0] Apple customer. The lack of evidence that they are gathering all my bits makes me comfortable to use their products. I strongly feel we'd hear leaks about how they are saying one thing and doing another if they were. Employees of Apple aren't that loyal. Yet here we are w…

You realize that Apple admitted to collecting cell tower and wifi data years ago, wholly separate from any location data, right? That they still do to this day . https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2011/04/27Apple-Q-A-on-Locati... It is impossible that a unique device submits data about cell and wifi locations in an "anonymous" way aside from putting another party in between (a party that you'd have to trust), and that ca…

Does Apple still collect that data if location services are turned off and the device has no sim? Then I would be outraged.

My guess is that they don't given that they have a setting in location services called "Wi-Fi networking". But this should definitely be investigated...

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#343

Post by fhood »

djrogers wrote: post #214
snowpanda wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, it would be nice to have an actual conversation about the issues in the mobile market right now instead of pointing to one of the 2 major companies, that nobody should really be 100% confident about. IMO both Google and Apple aren't saints. Apple had a fairly similar headline in 2011[1]. Now watch people here on HN explain why that was completely different. It's a guarantee. We really should be focusing comin…

> Apple had a fairly similar headline in 2011[1]. Now watch people here on HN explain why that was completely different. It's a guarantee. Ok, since you’ve so eloquently asked - a local copy of your location history that colllected when location services are turned on is completely different from remotely collecting location data even when you’ve explicitly disabled location services. Any attempt to say these are the…

Thank you for pointing this out. For a community of fairly intelligent people, hacker news comenters fall back on false equivalence near constantly.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#344

Post by fhood »

gregman1 wrote: post #126
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

Haha, Apple and infosec in the same sentence!

In case you were unaware, Apple and infosec come up together very frequently, often because 0days for iOs are exceptionally rare and valuable.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#345

Post by KozmoNau7 »

andrepd wrote: post #307
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere. A lot of people refuse to carry any significant amount of cash. It is a risk factor, especially when at events and shows or just during busy shopping hours, due to pickpockets. An app with verified identity (using the national 2FA login system in my country) is significantly more secure. >Should all be burned anyway. Plastic cards and bits of paper worked fine for decades,…

>It's a bunch of silly plastic cards that I then I have to carry around in my wallet or remember to bring from home when going shopping You're willing to sacrifice your privacy for this little convenience?

It's fine for one or two cards, but for all the rebate stuff and membership benefits, I would have to carry around a veritable mountain of cards. They already have all my relevant details for the memberships, and I don't share anything further than that via my phone.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#346

Post by lern_too_spel »

dep_b wrote: post #295
as1mov wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is the a dirt cheap Android phone will cost less than $100 for new unlocked, whereas a dirt cheap iPhone start at about $300. For $300, you could get a competitevly specced Android phone with great support for AOSP custom roms. Get one of these, flash AOSP without play services and you've got a reasonably privacy-focused phone.

For US$300 you'll get an iPhone SE that'll outrun a Samsung Galaxy S7 in most benchmarks. What's not competitive about that? Can't expect current flagship performance from a US$300 device.

A cheap Android phone runs circles around the most expensive iPhone in day-to-day tasks. https://youtu.be/qcfqhszn7Bk

This has been the case for many years now. https://youtu.be/hPhkPXVxISY

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#347

Post by blub »

cube2222 wrote: post #60
Brakenshire wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sophistry, privacy in the sense that a private company is not continuously compiling a list of every location you visit throughout your life.

And? How does that matter? What's dangerous in them collecting my location information? I actually have location history in google maps turned on deliberately. You can't imagine how often it helped me to know where I was exactly, one and a half year ago, at a precise time. (That's how I managed to get a copy of my nexus 5x's warranty papers after it died on me) I don't really care about them collecting info about whe…

I would be perfectly fine with having a checkbox which toggles this stuff. Then you could turn it to on, I could set it to off.

The problem is, there is no checkbox and data is forever. If one tries to think a little bit they can find some nasty possibilities of how that data could be abused to harm them, either out of malice or completely by accident (hope your name isn't "Archibald Buttle").

With enough data, everyone is guilty of something and today's teens will feed the Google machine for most of their lives if something doesn't change.

But just to be fair - you should have the freedom to upload all your data to whoever you want. Masochism is odd, but not particularly objectionable.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#348

Post by module0000 »

flukus wrote: post #228
module0000 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edited summary: The 'duty' is owed to shareholders, not to you. That duty is to generate profits and protect shareholders' investment. That's not how commerce works(anymore). You are technically a consumer...and you are fundamentally the "product". Companies buying advertising are the actual consumer - to which you(ie your data) are for sale. If you cannot look at it that way, modern corporate America/Elsewhere will…

Is running their brand name into the ground fulfilling their duty to share holders?

You are looking at the effect and not the cause. The cause is "their behavior", and their behavior is generating profits. The effect you state about their brand name has yet to decrease profits. That means they are fulfilling their duty, even if it's dirty/rotten/etc(doesn't matter, the market doesn't care).

edit: I don't mean to come off as "you're wrong! they are awesome!". What I mean is that until share prices stop rising, shareholders will encourage them to do exactly what they have been doing so far. The morality of it is trumped by the increase in share prices. Any feelings of shame or ill-gotten gains are quickly erased as shareholder portfolios increase in value. When in doubt - trust greed to predict behavior.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#349

Post by Helmet »

as1mov wrote: post #124
pjmlp wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. It is only obvious when one enjoys a wealthy life. There are lots of countries out where people can barely afford something better than a feature phone, and when they do, their hard worked savings are just enough for an Android device.

It's really humbling to see what people in different living circumstances take for granted. Apparently privacy is the fundamental right only for the people who can afford a $700+ device.

You can get a iPhone SE (essentially a 6S) which is a great phone perfectly capable of running any app for $150.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#350

Post by icebraining »

ex3ndr wrote: post #324
maigret wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But do you have counter examples? Because here, we see one more from Google, while Apple has had a much better track record so far that confirms this view that they are walking the talk, too.

I feel that people mostly don't care to check the correctness of Apple's claims. Yesterday i asked a question about security ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15751571 ) and no one replied.

A submission without replies doesn't necessarily mean nobody cares. Some links get submitted and receive zero comments, then a week later it gets submitted again and receives dozens or hundreds. It's a crapshoot.
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