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Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

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Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#341

Post by dep_b »

gozur88 wrote: post #326
pmontra wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 50 and I've been a freelancer since 2006. I position myself either as developer (Rails and jQuery back then, still Ruby and Python and Elixir now, I'm starting to code with React) or architect and coordinator of developers. That works well with small companies. I attend to tech events in my city (Milan, Italy) and I organize an event myself. It's a good way to keep the word of mounth going on. I don't know if thi…

The problem with freelancing is you spend a lot of unpaid time lining up jobs. Does that really pay off?

I spend a lot of spare time doing work for previous customers while being on a full-time project at the same time. Keeping multiple customers warm is a must. All paid though. A few weeks of not having a full-time engagement means finally being able to clear out the backlog and enjoying long weekends.

Every year I take an unpaid break for over a month around the holiday season. I love it but it always is a bit scary to be away from customers at the same time.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#342

Post by geomark »

bkeroack wrote: post #131
tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

Agreed. There is a strong drive in industry to commoditize "coding". For example, the wide proliferation of bootcamps. The world being what it is, if the perceived skill is equal companies would prefer to hire the cheaper 20 year old bootcamp grad vs the more expensive 45 yr old. So it's important to grow your skills and knowledge in areas that are not vulnerable to bootcamp commodification.

In addition to all the bootcamps, just look at the mania in primary school education about getting every kid to learn to code. If that isn't just a fad and it keeps going on through secondary and beyond then in the next decade or two the commoditization of coding will be complete.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#343

Post by geomark »

david-cako wrote: post #308
ChicagoDave wrote: post #135

There a couple of aspects to this issue. I'm 53. Management: I would argue that it's critical to garner management skills well before you turn 40. If you wait until 50, you're going to find it very difficult to move from talent-oriented jobs to management ones. Coding: I hate to generalize, but it's very likely you'll learn so much over your career that you will become an ineffective developer. You will know how to d…

>"it-must-be-challenging-or-I-get-bored" syndrome I don't know if I can handle this one getting worse.

I hear ya. I've long had the challenge that a problem is interesting and exciting until I see how I would solve it. Then I can barely force myself to implement the solution. I get it done, but if it gets any worse I'll never be able to finish anything.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#344

Post by tigershark »

rplst8 wrote: post #311
kelnos wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but those are the trade-offs. You don't get the reward without taking on a bit of risk. It's a little ironic to hear talk like this, since around here I hear a lot of "sorry your coal mining job is going away, but you need to get with the times and train for something relevant". Same thing applies here. If you pick a programming specialization that eventually falls out of favor, buck up and learn a new one. May…

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to expect that they should be able to work in a field for the majority of their careers. Retraining is not an efficient use of ones productive years.

I think that if someone chooses engineering then he must love to learn. For me it would be too boring to do the same thing for my whole life, I always try to learn more languages, more paradigms, architectures and whatever. I can jump in the code of a different team and be immediately productive. Usually I suggest and implement small changes that have a large impact on the maintanability of the system as soon as I start to grasp it as a whole. I couldn't ever do it if I stayed in the same field, in the same environment, for all my life. I think that if someone expects to work in a field doing the same thing for the majority of his career then probably should not choose engineering.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#345

Post by emodendroket »

erobbins wrote: post #154
pmoriarty wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you are not self motivated to constantly evolve you have a problem. Moreso than in a lot of other professions." I was self-motivated to constantly learn, and had no trouble doing it... when I was young. It was the right profession for me then, when I had the interest and passion. After a while, though, much of it starts to seem the same. The towering vistas that were once full of mystery, adventure, and discovery…

Hi, me! I look around at my bigN and I see all these 20something people who just love what they're working on and are passionate about it, and I get it. I was the same way at that age. I just don't care anymore, tbh. I want to work on something fun, and things that are fun don't usually provide a paycheck. So I grind away, and the years waste away, and I don't know what to do about it. I'm smart enough to get by with…

Isn't this the story of most people in our society?

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#346

Post by jqgatsby »

JimboOmega wrote: post #251
ChicagoDave wrote: post #135

There a couple of aspects to this issue. I'm 53. Management: I would argue that it's critical to garner management skills well before you turn 40. If you wait until 50, you're going to find it very difficult to move from talent-oriented jobs to management ones. Coding: I hate to generalize, but it's very likely you'll learn so much over your career that you will become an ineffective developer. You will know how to d…

I agree with your points, and also suffer from that syndrome. So I have to ask - how do you do the management portion of that? Getting into it, I mean, more than just developing the skills or interest. I've been trying to get into the management side of things but get stymied over and over, and typically people who express disinterest (and no particular aptitude) keep getting chosen to do it. This has had a tendency…

If you are looking for a smooth transition, get on a large team that is under-managed (say, >14 people and only one manager/tech-lead), and in addition to doing your regular tasks, start getting heavily involved in sprint planning and technical & product specs. Gradually do more and more of that and less individual work. Voila, you are a manager!

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#347

Post by _Tev »

DataWorker wrote: post #310
mgkimsal wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is always risk associated with specialization That might be the reason people demand higher pay, but it wouldn't be the reason why companies pay the higher pay. They pay it because there's a scarcity of people, and/or because they get some multipled value back. No company cares if I've specialized in the 'wrong thing' - they just won't hire me.

That’s an important “or”. It’s not always scarcity, it’s often the perceived value. CEOs are just one of many examples where the pay is not at all because of scarcity.

Are there really that many people capable and willing to work as CEO? From my experience there are never enough good managers.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#348

Post by PeachPlum »

jordanb wrote: post #98
tptacek wrote: post #71

I was going to add this as a reply to a comment downthread but I think it's too important to bury. The fundamental rule of career progression in the technology industry is to position yourself as a domain expert in something more specific than "programming" . It's very difficult to "own" "programming" in a way where you can use scarcity to drive integer multiple increases of the median salary. It is not as difficult…

The big danger is "owning" some domain that falls out of fashion. You might "own" distributed systems and do great for a time, but then companies start transitioning from that architecture and nobody returns your calls anymore. Also I've noticed a lot of sub-fields like computer vision or self driving cars where there's a great deal of nerd interest but very little actual employment. In fact, I have a feeling that co…

If you think Web Programming is where the interest is at, you haven't been searching "data analyst" on the job boards

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#349

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

otakucode wrote: post #261
sreque wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://matt.might.net/articles/best-programming-languages/ "I don't think Java is all that bad, and I can enjoy well-done object-oriented programming." This is probably the most accurate opinion of Java the language I've seen, one that isn't tarnished by what anyone has seen in any proprietary codebase. I would rather program in Java the programming language than Javascript any day of the year, even if I dislike the…

Yes, I should have made it clear that Java the language is not inherently terrible. And the JVM itself is really quite nifty. It is unfortunately the infection of Java codebases (literally all of them I have seen with the sole exception of short Processing sketches made for graphical effects) with a mindset of design patterns as lego bricks used to build applications. Java did have a rough start though, there was cle…

I think the JVM itself will be Java's saving grace - languages like Scala and even Clojure now are gaining huge popularity that not only leverage the JVM and existing ecosystem but have the ability to rapidly advance and abandon Java's warts. So it's not like COBOL in that regard. Because of the power of the JVM ecosystem I think even Java's glacial pace of adopting new features will be enough to keep up for many years or even decades to come.

Re: Is software development really a dead-end job after age 35-40?

#350

Post by kthielen »

spraak wrote: post #332
havetocharge wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks fo sharing. Just wanted to comment that while generalists do not get outlandish compensation offers, they are more likely to qualify for a wider set of jobs. In a way, it is a different strategy in the employment game: you go for a less risky bet than specializing in something, and by that increase the chances of being employed.

Not really... because then you're just competition against a larger pool of people. I.e. a generalist is common, while a domain expert is not, so more generalists means more competition.

That's why compensation is lower and companies can hire more generalists to soak up supply ...
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