Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 406 posts

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#341

Post by vijayr »

pascalxus wrote: post #60

Malls hold no interest for me whatsoever. There's nothing there worthwhile, other than employment. Malls have nothing: no libraries, no Good Cafes, no places to hang out, no parks, no museums, no zoos, limited live music, no outdoors. And the few things it does have: like some book stores and places to eat, are all engineered to get you in and out and back to the Mall's singular focus: Spend, spend, spend: shop till…

same with airports - just why do we need sooooooo many shops right next to the terminals? I understand travelers might need some basic stuff (food, water etc) but why other crap, especially so close to the terminals? no wonder airports are so huge

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#342

Post by taneq »

kiliantics wrote: post #321
gbacon wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A recent video called “Why The Kids Need Stranger Things”[0] made exactly this point about the nostalgia of the Netflix series and how malls were a symbol of free-range kids[1]. Circumstances have changed so much that the creators assert Stranger Things could not be set in the present day. [0]: https://youtu.be/qHl-BQXYg3s [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-range_parenting

Definitely an interesting point that children have less freedom today. But it's a bit of a stretch to say that this is what's causing the "safe space mentality". The narrator says the good old days of free range parenting led children to be more prone to questioning authority, which is healthy. If anything, you could argue that young people's assertion of their right to "safe spaces" is a form of rebellion in itself.…

I don't think it's "young people" in general that want 'safe spaces', just the very vocal prog-left fringe.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#343

Post by itswhateverman2 »

s73ver_ wrote: post #177
itswhateverman2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand. Malls only end up as a social gathering spot when there's nowhere else to go. And even then, that only really appeals to teenagers who have nothing else to do. A mall would never be preferable to what was mentioned above, a downtown with brick paths and quality scenery/stores, etc.

A mall would be 10x preferable to that stuff when it's -10 degrees out.

My point is that these outdoor centers always have more to offer for social activities. Indoor malls do not have this, even when it is more convenient to use them.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#344

Post by pixl97 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #328
lurker456 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ones who organize these deals have already taken the money and are long gone. The ones holding the bag after it collapses are the employees, suppliers and institutional investors.

Of course - what happened, happened. But when banks recognize that it is not in their interest to give loans to holdings to purchase companies in order to get loans on them simply because eventually when the loans on the companies default the banks are on the hook again, they will not loan them money any more. That's the inherent beauty of interconnected and sold loans - no one will be left spared when they eventuall…

> the banks are on the hook again

hehe

> the banks are on the hook again

hahaha

> the banks are on the hook again

Too big to fail buddy. The banks are never on the hook.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#345

Post by itswhateverman2 »

irrational wrote: post #215
itswhateverman2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand. Malls only end up as a social gathering spot when there's nowhere else to go. And even then, that only really appeals to teenagers who have nothing else to do. A mall would never be preferable to what was mentioned above, a downtown with brick paths and quality scenery/stores, etc.

Where I live it rains for 9 months out of the year (and is very hot 2 of the other months - we maybe get 1 month of nice outdoor weather a year). I'd much prefer an enclosed space. Though, let's be honest, I'd really prefer someone to just drop my purchases off at my doorstep so I don't have to deal with the weather at all.

This is not about shopping convenience, I'm arguing against the idea that indoor malls are even social spots in the first place. Everyone seems to be glossing over this.

For the record: Yes, obviously indoor malls are preferable for convenient shopping when the weather is bad. They are NOT social centers.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#346

Post by xyzzyz »

tonysdg wrote: post #232
drak0n1c wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair point, but the comparison is a bit uneven - you are comparing one industry's post-devastation numbers with another's pre-devastation numbers. Across the rust belt, just a few decades ago, there were many times more coal workers than 70k. If you go back to 1923 there were 883k.

So it's one order of magnitude difference compared to two? That's still not pretty.

900k people in 1923 correspond to 2.5-3M people today, if you account for overall population growth.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#347

Post by pixl97 »

mac01021 wrote: post #142
crisdux wrote: post #42

I'd imagine this is also partly due to the America's demographic changes and the aging population. The large baby boomer generation is retiring and entering a period in their lives where their consumption is lower. Generation X is smaller and can't keep up the consumption. Generation Y is slowly entering a consumption phase.

Why is consumption lower after you retire? You've finally got time to spend all that money that you've been spending all your time earning.

Because the retirees don't have a lot saved. Fewer and fewer have had career long jobs. SS is paying less. Medical bills are going up.

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#348

Post by pixl97 »

Digory wrote: post #193
emodendroket wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you read the article it describes a lot of businesses which are profitable and could plod along, except they're saddled with tons of debt from leveraged buyouts.

That struck me as bogus. In other words, they're saying the businesses aren't profitable enough to service debt loads that were thought to be sustainable debt loads a few years ago. That still points to lower than expected retail profit. Interest rates have been unusually low for more than a decade, so it's not like a credit spike changed the assumptions.

>thought to be sustainable debt loads a few years ago.

No, the debt was never sustainable. Essentially the banks allowed loans which were gigantic ponzi schemes.

Retail: "Our growth will continue forever!"

Banks: Hmm, we got bit pretty hard on these home loans and need somewhere else to make money, "Forever growth is like infinite money, I like money!", "Here is 10 billion dollars, just remember to pay us back in 2017".

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#349

Post by _rpd »

phirschybar wrote: post #263

Full disclosure: I am the co-founder and lead developer at https://www.locally.com . We do exactly what I describe below and we're seeing great results. People want to buy from their local stores. They just need the modern paths to purchase: BOPIS (buy online pick up in store), local delivery, and the knowledge oh what is in stock nearby. IMHO, the real path forward for retail is to get their in-stock goods in front…

> People want to buy from their local stores.

Why? I love my local baker, but for brand name items, I'm going to order online.

> BOPIS (buy online pick up in store)

Why is this attractive to anyone? If I am making the effort to fight traffic and parking to visit a physical location, I want to handle the item. "BOPIS" seems like the worst of all worlds to me.

> knowledge of what is in stock nearby

This is crucial. This is the main reason I no longer visit physical stores. They likely don't have the item I want in stock. It's just an exercise in pure frustration. I don't want to be cross-sold or up-sold, and I certainly don't need someone to order an item that will require a return visit in 2-4 weeks.

> local delivery

Maybe if it is same day, otherwise why do people care?

Re: America’s ‘Retail Apocalypse’ Is Really Just Beginning

#350

Post by debacle »

Some context - I live in Buffalo, one of the areas in the 10-25% range.

You can't give away commercial space here in Buffalo. Prices are Our malls are...problematic. Two have already converted into office space, with a third being slowly transitioned as it empties (I believe it is empty now). One of our malls is dying a slow and painful death, even as it is surrounded by a booming retail space. Our other mall has been designed very well to be a destination vs an in/out type of location.

But there are still many commercial vacancies. I don't know a lot about zoning, but many of these locations should really be repurposed to residential. There's also a large sprawl problem.

Finally, it looks like Niagara Falls was included in that statistic and Niagara Falls is an absolute shithole.

Post reply on HN