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Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

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Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#341

Post by pjc50 »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #168
seorphates wrote: post #47

Working in open office plans is simply awful. Personally I believe remote work, for any tech-enabled employer, makes the most sense. The impact on infrastructure by removing commuting alone could maybe help save the planet. And our collective sanity. Wouldn't it be nice to have ISPs that can provide an infrastructure that could actually support that? I think so. The hideous effects of cluster-fucking hundreds of thou…

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

The trade-off is the medium-sized office: a room containing up to six people who are all part of the same team.

You get all the advantages of being able to talk to people, and none of the disadvantages of conversations drifting over from the rest of the office. And there's more of a chance that if your immediate co-workers are discussing something then it's actually relevant to you.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#342

Post by dasmoth »

pjc50 wrote: post #341
matthewmacleod wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

The trade-off is the medium-sized office: a room containing up to six people who are all part of the same team. You get all the advantages of being able to talk to people, and none of the disadvantages of conversations drifting over from the rest of the office. And there's more of a chance that if your immediate co-workers are discussing something then it's actually relevant to you.

Noooo! You still get the chatter and it's harder to ignore if it's familiar people talking about semi-relevant stuff.

Also, it cements the idea that things are done by teams, not individuals.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#343

Post by pvdebbe »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #211
pteredactyl wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visual distraction is very real when trying to focus.

Visual distraction is the second worst, IMO, with noise in third. Number 1 is vibration and physical movement. I've had a desk environment where two folks would be sitting on opposite sides of a wide table, so there's one shared and non-isolated surface that both people work on. Every time my coworker would stand up, they'd brace themselves on the desk and shake the shit out of it, and I never learned to filter it ou…

A big issue for me is the office climate. In an open space there's always going to be people who are too hot or too cold. A healthy 30 percent is going to be miserable at any given setting.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#344

Post by danpalmer »

Kluny wrote: post #313
stale2002 wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypothetical scenario here: Lets say that you have a 5 minute question, that would save you an hour of work. In a closed/cubicle style office, you may be less willing to bug your expert co-worker. In an open office, it may be perfectly normal to turn to your left, and quickly ask you question. Sure, you are taking time out of your co-worker's day, but even so, on the net whole, asking the question is probably a net b…

That five minute question may well save you an hour of work, but it's just as likely - I'd say_more_ likely - to steal an hour of productivity from the person you ask. Just send them a message in slack. Don't be so obnoxious as to assume that whatever's bugging you at this moment is automatically more important than whatever your co-worker is on. I don't know why it feels weirder to slack them then it does to turn yo…

Agreed. I think teams need the discipline to _not_ just turn around and start talking, but to message on Slack/etc. However, once that has been done, having the person right next to you can make the process of answering the question much quicker and easier when they are ready.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#345

Post by Marazan »

Steeeve wrote: post #285
inetknght wrote: post #85

My company only has offices for upper management. Everyone else is at a table . Tables are arranged in groups of four. Now, I get it, some people like open office environments. Good for them. Me? Well, I've told many coworkers that I can't work from home because I wouldn't work from home. There are too many distractions at home, so I need to be at the office to be productive. But this open office? There are days wher…

> some people like open office environments I don't know of anyone that prefers an open office.

I prefer an open office.

Thanks.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#346

Post by danpalmer »

sidlls wrote: post #28

Open offices diminish workers to cattle status. Most work, even the kind many developers would not think of as being so, in tech companies requires thoughtfulness often and collaboration less often. I consider open office plans to be disrespectful and an indicator of second-class status.

Another point of view would be that by having 'senior management' in the same rooms, at the same desks in an open office, they are more human and there's less of a perceived barrier between them and everyone else - which could be seen as a positive.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#347

Post by ihalip »

Steeeve wrote: post #285
inetknght wrote: post #85

My company only has offices for upper management. Everyone else is at a table . Tables are arranged in groups of four. Now, I get it, some people like open office environments. Good for them. Me? Well, I've told many coworkers that I can't work from home because I wouldn't work from home. There are too many distractions at home, so I need to be at the office to be productive. But this open office? There are days wher…

> some people like open office environments I don't know of anyone that prefers an open office.

Younger hires fresh out of college maybe?

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#348

Post by matthewmacleod »

seorphates wrote: post #230
matthewmacleod wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

It's sort of telling how far out of my way you went to form an argument against something you manifested all by yourself. You're a bike ride away from the office that you prefer? Fantastic job of deflection. It's rather obvious that there are trade-offs, isn't it? It's pretty clear to me, at any rate, and there's nothing inherently wrong with providing an office. Shame on your words coming out of my mouth. In relatio…

You are allowed to have your opinion on what it's like to work in various kinds of offices. I absolutely, 100% accept that people have different working styles, and one of those styles is those who prefer to work in a more isolated fashion.

But, like I said, I'm annoyed that it's become obvious accepted wisdom that "open offices universally suck" – because it's emphatically not that simple. I respect your need to work in a different environment, and explicitly advocated ensuring that you are able to do that – so please respect my preferences as well.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#349

Post by matthewmacleod »

pjc50 wrote: post #341
matthewmacleod wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not simple. I am awfully bored of these “everything is simple, open offices are uniformly awful, everybody should be remote” arguments. Yes - this works for some people, in some workplaces. In other cases, it doesn’t work. I’m fine with my open office space, and I prefer working from an office - which is a bike ride away and better equipped than I am. How about instead we accept that there are almost certain…

The trade-off is the medium-sized office: a room containing up to six people who are all part of the same team. You get all the advantages of being able to talk to people, and none of the disadvantages of conversations drifting over from the rest of the office. And there's more of a chance that if your immediate co-workers are discussing something then it's actually relevant to you.

That's a good middle-ground in my experience, if a larger hybrid office space isn't possible.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#350

Post by doomlaser »

chmaynard wrote: post #162

I worked at Apple during the years when the company designed and built its first campus at 1 Infinite Loop in Cupertino. As I recall, Apple R&D employees were considered stakeholders and participated in the design of the interior spaces. Apple wisely decided to give each engineer a private office. There were open areas near the offices with comfortable furniture and whiteboards for engineers to meet and collaborate.…

Yes. The Infinite Loop space was designed really well, and each of the buildings was somewhat different with some character.
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