Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because it further reduces the number of homes available for people to actually live (which is why we have zoning laws), which inflates rent/housing prices. This forces the bottom rung out of the city, because they can't afford to live there, and now minimum wage jobs (which we need to run the services people want) can't be filled, artists and musicians disappear, and the city becomes a place only for tourists and th…
Did you know hotels take up space that could be used for housing as well? It's crazy, but I looked it up and it's true. Using urban space for hotels, stores, and other amenities absolutely reduces the number of housing units thus potentially driving up prices for renters. In fact, this is a major factor in urban planning. Assuming that this is unique to AirBNB is poorly thought out.
Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
341–350 of 362 posts
Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
And an international regulation avoidance service.
Which I couldn't care less about as long as they improve my daily life. I can book and pay an Uber in two clicks and it arrives on time. Why should I care about an idiot politician not getting their pockets filled because Uber aren't complying with regulations forcing them to fill his pockets?
Most regulation is not the result of "idiot politicians", it's the result of customers demanding protection.
Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#343At least these professional landlords own the properties and thus have some sort of stake in the matter. A friend of mine some how managed to rent multiple apartments at the same time and then rented them all out via AirBnb. He lived with his girlfriend, so he was essentially a professional landlord who didn't own any property. I like AirBnb but with time it's warts are being exposed. After being racially profiled mu…
Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#344Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. None of this is a surprise, so much so that AirBnB seems to be aware of this and is acting in a way that's, at best, ethically challenged and, at worst, illegal eg deleting listings before giving data to the state of NY that "shows" most hosts only have one unit [1]. If people wa…
Put me in the camp that's very anti-AirBnB as a resident who doesn't want where I lived turned into a hotel. I live in NYC. It's a problem. The real problem here is not Airbnb, which is a symptom; it's zoning, which forbids market-clearing prices and a sufficient number of units to satisfy demand for living in and visiting the city. For more on this, see e.g. Matt Yglesias's The Rent is Too Damn High : https://www.am…
a) You have a decent city with reasonable rents
b) AirBNB
c) Same city with outrageous rents
-- Choose either --
d1) Now we have to change the building codes and
wait for the effect of the invisible hand to complete
the massive change to the city so that there is a huge
new housing stock at the same rents as before
-- or Choose --
d2) Now we have to ban AirBNB and have the city return
to its original reasonable state.
Forget for the moment the NYMBYist case for (d2). What about the tourist case? Is a tourist just as interested in the new form of the city with four additional new stories on every residential acre plus the increased grocery stores? What about the rest of the infrastructure that has to be built to support all this density? Is the open-minded local commuter going to want to continue to live in the (d1) environment as it grows more and more dense and commutes (on foot and by subway) grow worse and worse? Is this really "flourishing" or just the shortest path to a Blade Runner set with actual people?Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#345Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, I was hypothizing local owned (not chain) hotels, but you are right, anyway nowadays there will be the 15 % or higher fee that booking.com or similar charge, at least for the bookings that went through them. If you reduce the "before" of (let's say that the chain/franchise fee is lower and that not all bookings (thankfully) go through booking.com or similar, by 10% of 120,000,000 in the "before" i.e. 12,000,000…
Half the time when I called the hotel chain for a room reservation they offered a lower price then Booking.com. Think Hilton or IHG
Yes, this is possible in some (not all) countries, there is a clause in booking.com and similar web aggregators/portlas/whatever you call them contract about the "parity rate" where you cannot sell the same room at a price lower than the one advertised on booking.com, expedia, etc..
Little by little Law in several countries has been modified to make the clause a null one, Germany, Austria, France, in a hopefully near future Italy:
http://hotelanalyst.co.uk/2017/05/16/hotels-accused-of-freer...
But for the sake of reasoning it changes little as - as said - both unit prices and hypotherical increase in presence were just "invented" and the saving is of course for the visitor so the city/place (globally) won't see those anyway.
Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#346Earlier quoted context omitted.
Housing is a disaster in every major city and price have been going up almost 10% a year for a while. AirBnb hardly has any influence on that.
Montreal is amazing, actually. Thanks, universally-slandered rent-control! Living in this city makes me realize how cargo-culty a lot of HN economics is.
Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#347Earlier quoted context omitted.
> not one-off people that might not take the transaction seriously But this is exactly what's needed to keep costs down. Consumers have the choice of professionally managed and regulated hotels, for a higher price, or to take a chance on some guy's couch in a basement, for very cheap, because hospitality isn't couch-guy's day job and it's just a way for him to make an extra quick buck. That couch-guy is a one-off is…
> using AirBNB to skirt regulations. i'd like to hear what sort of regulations that are being skirted. I keep hearing about things like fire safety laws, and escape hatches etc. Why does being used as a hotel force an apartment to be more stringent than it originally was? Shouldn't the safety regulations be the same no matter what? As for zoning laws - those are arbituary lines drawn by the city planners. As a proper…
No. Hotels are denser (in terms of people sleeping in a building) than typical apartment buildings, because apartment buildings need to devote the square footage to copies of kitchens etc. per apartment, which unnecessarily would drive up the cost of hotel rooms. But leaving that aside (after all, the argument is about apartment buildings being used in place of hotels, not hotel buildings) - there's a bigger picture than just safety regulations.
How about taxes? Cities which attract tourism often like to establish high taxes on tourists, because municipalities need to draw their budget from somewhere, and tourists don't vote (well, they do, because they could decide to vacation somewhere else, but barring a very steep price increase, tourism tends to be somewhat immune from these higher taxes, by the very nature of most tourists saving up money to travel to some specific fantasy location), so municipalities will levy high taxes on hotels, knowing full well that those taxes are passed on to tourists. When hotels start to be threatened by unregulated competitors, that competition threatens that tax revenue stream.
> As for zoning laws - those are arbitrary lines drawn by the city planners
So what? As many objectors have pointed out, city residents have an inherent interest in developing a sense of community, which requires people to commit to living in apartments over the long-term. Ghost ownership threatens that social good, and seasonal tourism threatens local mom-and-pop shops serving local neighborhoods, which no longer get foot traffic in the off-season. That's not to say hotels are evil - it's to say that one of the central tenets of urban planning is to attempt to balance competing, mutually-exclusive interests forced to live together by inherent urban density, for the common harmony and benefit of all, and zoning is an integral tool for that purpose.
> As a property owner, you have to make the best use of the property, and if airbnb brings in more money, you _have_ to do it, otherwise, you'd be losing value.
This is a farcical argument. The highest return for urban property is turning it into illegal drug factory. By your logic, investment apartments should always be turned into illegal drug factories, because their investors have to do it, otherwise they'd be losing value. After all, what's the qualitative difference between breaking zoning laws and breaking drug enforcement laws? If you're OK with operating an illegal hotel, to the detriment of the people in the surrounding neighborhood, then why not be OK with operating an illegal drug factory, also to the detriment of the people in the surrounding neighborhood?
Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#348Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because, like Uber, for customers it is a massive improvement over the alternative. I am taking my family to Atlanta next week for my son's birthday. Using AirBNB (or equivalent service) saved me well over $1500 for the trip - we would have needed three hotel rooms but rented a house instead. As an added bonus, instead of all that money going to a large corporation, it will go to an individual. The level of myopia he…
Not really. I used to use AirBnB, but I went back to hotels. It's worth the extra money. Let me know how it works out for you and your family when you get there and the host is nowhere to be found and doesn't pick up his phone for 3 hours because he forgot, or you realize at 1am on a Saturday you forgot to take the key to the front door with you and there's nothing you can do about it until 10am, or afterwards when y…
Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
Montreal is amazing, actually. Thanks, universally-slandered rent-control! Living in this city makes me realize how cargo-culty a lot of HN economics is.
A lot of cities have or had rent control, usually with disastrous results. What makes Montreal different (non-rhetorical question)?
However, I live here, and it's incredible. Every time some economist (or, worse, economics enthusiast) makes a ludicrous claim like "rent control is objectively and universally agreed upon to be bad" I just laugh. Montreal routinely ranks as one of the best cities in the planet (and I agree with that assessment), so clearly it's not as black-and-white as it's made seem.
Re: Airbnb dominated by professional landlords
#350Earlier quoted context omitted.
These apps and startups and technology in general can certainly accelerate the shift from one status quo to a new one; AirBNB and Uber have disrupted hotel and taxi industries, certainly. The question we should be asking, as a society, is the new status quo one we want? Is it making life better overall? Or is it one that only a few of us want, because they're getting rich while the rest of us are getting more hard do…
It's definitely better for me at least. I can pretty much go live anywhere in the world and arrange accommodation in a few clicks - what's not to like?
Here's a little video that explains it, for those that haven't yet heard of the tragedy of the commons: