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Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

mcmansionhell.com

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Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#341

Post by canoebuilder »

uses wrote: post #69

I totally understand the whole "McMansions are bad architecture" thing... However, something about it really bothers me. There was an episode of 99% Invisible where the guest was talking about their McMansions blog and how it makes fun of these Horrid dwellings. The whole thing stank of classist elitism. The Wrong Type of people were getting the chance to design and build large houses, and of course they're applying…

Robert Schumann started a magazine in which he railed against the musical Philistines of his day. We're still listening to the music of Schumann and those who he admired. The Philistines? Not so much.

Was that "classist elitism," or did Schumann just know what he was talking about?

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#342

Post by 3xnis »

blhack wrote: post #239
uses wrote: post #69

I totally understand the whole "McMansions are bad architecture" thing... However, something about it really bothers me. There was an episode of 99% Invisible where the guest was talking about their McMansions blog and how it makes fun of these Horrid dwellings. The whole thing stank of classist elitism. The Wrong Type of people were getting the chance to design and build large houses, and of course they're applying…

The only relevant question is: do the people living in these houses enjoy them? Because if they do, then who cares? I look at some of the houses on the blog and think they're really pretty. Sorry I don't have the correct sort of taste in windows or whatever. Maybe it's because I'm one of those dumb idiots that grew up in a flyover state (Iowa). This house: http://99percentinvisible.org/app/uploads/2016/10/12-hate-pe.…

It's the other way round. The people who are living in these houses don't have to look at them. It's the people who don't live in those houses that have to look at them.

It's an insult to society when somebody builds an ugly house and everybody else has to look at it.

Settled neighborhoods are more expensive than new ones because you can avoid living next to an ugly house.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#343

Post by majewsky »

mschaef wrote: post #209
toufka wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the more reason the blog is so useful. I'd hate to think with all the modern technology around us that the house I live in 'just doesn't feel right' because it was not built employing the past dozen millennia-worth of architectural knowledge at our social disposal. Just because I am not an architect doesn't mean I want to be swindled into an unknowingly unpleasant home. Just because I'm not an architect of CPUs d…

> Why is this so different Benchmarks are at least attempting to be objective. Also, there's a difference between mocking a company's product and mocking a house that is 1) an individual's home 2) their largest investment and 3) is likely, these days, to represent a significant financial liability. I don't like McMansions much myself, but I can absolutely sympathize with people that want an affordable way to get more…

It's a tradeoff. Clearly pointing out the issues might educate the next generation of customers how to design a better house at a lower price point.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#344

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #181
allworknoplay wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought I was the only bothered by that blog (the 99pi episode was based on it). I agree with practically all of its conclusions (ugly, oversized, out of place, generic, etc.), but the entire thing was a bunch of worthless value judgements: this is bad, that is bad. Not: this is bad because of function, but literally "this should never happen" -- no explanation. Real example from way back machine, from the blog's m…

>>A transom should never overwhelm the door or window [...] >... that's it. No explanation [...] The explanation is ~'it shouldn't overwhelm it'. Of course that's a value judgement. Like saying the front bumper (aka "fender") shouldn't be too big on a car; or a persons hat shouldn't be too big for their hat (tell that to JK, https://goo.gl/images/ztdusQ ). The implicit point is that the transom is ostentatiously larg…

The blog works on two levels. The first is pointing out established architectural principles and traditions.

The second is poking the US tradition of "I have money and therefore I'm right about everything, even when I have no idea what I'm doing" squarely in both eyes.

For the first, there is an embryonic science of aesthetics. Features like self-similarity, scale coherence, integration, and symmetry tend to score more highly than random content blobbery and mash-ups.

For the second - of course it's political. But in a country where freedom of speech is supposed to be a thing, I see that as a feature, not a bug.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#345

Post by bchalala »

nickrivadeneira wrote: post #208
nothis wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Wrong Type of people were getting the chance to design and build large houses, and of course they're applying their Bad Taste that's neither Genuine nor Authentic. They don't know about the traditions of Fine Architecture so of course they were doing it all wrong...how embarrassing for them! Leave out the "wrong type of people" part and you got pretty much every criticism ever. Bad movies, bad books, bad food...…

Poorer people can still be elitist. Expressing cultural or artistic superiority is a form of elitism that doesn't require wealth.

Yeah, poorer people can be elitist, but that doesn't necessarily make what McMansionHell is doing some elitist sort of enterprise. It's a guy/girl pointing out architectural flaws in buildings and discussing why they are flaws. It's as elitist as movie critic talking about a new film, and in that sense it's ridiculous that the site is being pulled down over this. You aren't entitled to have somebody agree with your taste.

Edit: You're right, nobody is arguing that it was pulled down for that and I didn't realize until I read a bit more. My point about entitlement still stands though.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#346

Post by taway_1212 »

tvanantwerp wrote: post #246
rayiner wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Northern Virginia among these McMansions, and frankly I don't buy the elitism angle. These folks have a lot of money (top 5% at least, if not even top 1%) and are among the best educated in the country. And these aren't dwellings driven by the need for functionality. It's not like people here have big families they need to house (empty nesters can afford them more readily than people with families!). The…

I'm living in NoVa in a zip code in the top 2% of wealth in the US. (Sadly, I'm not personally in the top 2%, I just rent an apartment here.) There are McMansions all around, and they are hideous. There's no sense of design or symmetry. And this is no aspirational neighborhood--if you're buying one of these houses, you are already at the top of society. As much as I hate looking at these McMansions, they do give me o…

> As much as I hate looking at these McMansions, they do give me one consolation: money can't buy taste. Maybe I'll never afford that monstrosity you call a house, but at least I've got the sense to not want it in the first place.

My theory is that people who can afford such houses are usually very busy with their jobs or companies and don't have the time or mindspace to think about what kind of place they'd really like to live in, not to mention "details" like aesthetics. They're in perpetual hurry and thus they buy a house like the handle a project at their company.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#347

Post by bchalala »

throwaway055 wrote: post #330
uses wrote: post #69

I totally understand the whole "McMansions are bad architecture" thing... However, something about it really bothers me. There was an episode of 99% Invisible where the guest was talking about their McMansions blog and how it makes fun of these Horrid dwellings. The whole thing stank of classist elitism. The Wrong Type of people were getting the chance to design and build large houses, and of course they're applying…

There's definitely rampant classism going on here, but not in the direction you seem to think. Her blog has an extremely mean-spirited tone, she's downright attacking people. Her audience is accepting of that because it's directed at people who own large houses, and people who own large houses have money and are successful. In her world, it's acceptable to treat people poorly, as long as they're successful and have m…

The very nature of the houses in question are built for the sole purpose of showing some sort of opulence to the viewer. The people who buy these kind of houses look at that sort of opulence and say "yep it's got all that opulence I want" and they buy it. Now that same exact person could potentially buy something with taste, or potentially even design a house. It's not like these people are forced into having a stupid looking house.

On the contrary, you'd be hard pressed to find a lower class person with the financial freedom to buy whichever house they please, and because of that they kind of have to live in houses that are made in a more functional sense of "a place where humans can live."

The blog isn't about tearing down wealthy people, it's about tearing down shitty architecture. She showcases really great architecture as well that obviously isn't affordable.

I don't think your argument has any basis.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#349

Post by emodendroket »

ryandrake wrote: post #268
emodendroket wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so. I dunno. I don't feel like I have a clear sense of what distinguishes a "McMansion" from "recently-built house in a more or less modern style."

While there may not be One True Definition, and there's room to agree and disagree, there are attributes people probably could agree are tasteless and help qualify a house as a McMansion: * No clear architectural style, or a haphazard/incoherent mix of styles * Brick or stone facades in front, and cheap siding on the (less visible) sides * Non-structural arches and columns * Oddly placed/sized windows * Multiple roof…

The first bullet point, anyway, is also typical of any house that's been around a while.

Re: Zillow forces McMansion Hell to delete posts

#350

Post by SimonPStevens »

Declanomous wrote: post #135
rayiner wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in Northern Virginia among these McMansions, and frankly I don't buy the elitism angle. These folks have a lot of money (top 5% at least, if not even top 1%) and are among the best educated in the country. And these aren't dwellings driven by the need for functionality. It's not like people here have big families they need to house (empty nesters can afford them more readily than people with families!). The…

Additionally, McMansions are often not very functional. As much as I would appreciate more space, I've been in enough McMansions to appreciate how important a well-built and well-designed house is. Completely ignoring scale doesn't just make McMansions aesthetically unpleasant, it them uncomfortable or completely unsuitable for most of the things we use a house for as well. If you spend any time in a McMansion, you w…

These problems are not unique to McMansions.

I live in a normal size house and opening the dishwasher blocks access to the sink, the two cupboards under the sink and two cupboards above.

The lounge is long and due to the door placement there is no sensible layout for the sofa that wouldn't have people sitting a long way from each other (in the end we used the furniture to effectively split the room into two smaller areas which were more sensibly shaped)

My previous house had a cupboard too close to a central breakfast bar that meant you couldn't access the cupboard if someone was sitting at the breakfast bar.

Bad room layout is everywhere.

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