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Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

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Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#341

Post by bigbugbag »

jaredklewis wrote: post #244
jpambrun wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure Anti-ad-blocking laws are practically enforceable. Even with the ad labeling requirements relaxed, unless it is truly deceptive, a CNN could identify it just as well (or better) than we can.

Why not? Even if the risk of getting caught is small, if the penalties are large, the risk isn't worth it. Feel like risking a trip to jail just to avoid some ads? Not to mention that it is fairly easy for government to clamp down on distribution of software that allows ad blocking. As blockers will still exist, but adoption will plummet if the only place to get a ad blocker is torrent sites and such.

Thing is an ad-blocker is merely a content blocker that happens to block ads. making ad blocking illegal would not make content blocker illegal.

You could still use those to block trackers which are the underwater part of the online ads iceberg. Making an anti-tracking-blocking law would be a different beast because now you're attacking a fundamental human right to privacy and advertisers would still be mad because they lost their ability to upsell their ads that can't be targeted or retargeted anymore.

Alternatively just go back to using the system hosts file, or replace ad blockers by whole website blockers, use a vpn to a country that does not have this law. There are options around such a nonsense piece of legislation

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#342

Post by bigbugbag »

ruleabidinguser wrote: post #72
downandout wrote: post #36

The article puts a significant emphasis on the idea that bulletproof ad-blocking technology, assuming that's what this turns out to be in practice, will work long-term becuase of legal restrictions imposed by the FTC. If Google, Facebook, or other multi-billion dollar entities detect an existential threat arising from this or any other technology, rest assured that the laws will change as quickly as is necessary to k…

Personally I wouldn't be offended if users of these services were denied access to websites that for example depend on ads. Its something like a violation of contract by the user.

There's no such contract for publicly accessible website. If there was one it could be denounced as any other contract and would allow suing the website for breach of contract.

Then there's countries outside the US with different contract laws, so imagine the headache to have a blog online.

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#343

Post by bigbugbag »

rvern wrote: post #222
downandout wrote: post #36

The article puts a significant emphasis on the idea that bulletproof ad-blocking technology, assuming that's what this turns out to be in practice, will work long-term becuase of legal restrictions imposed by the FTC. If Google, Facebook, or other multi-billion dollar entities detect an existential threat arising from this or any other technology, rest assured that the laws will change as quickly as is necessary to k…

The United States is only one of the many countries that Google and Facebook operate in. They have to follow the laws of the other countries as well, and they have done so in the past. Furthermore, if humans are still able to recognize the ads as ads after they are not explicitly marked as ads, a perceptual ad-blocker might be able to detect them too. If the adtech companies modify the ads enough that the ads are ind…

They have to, but they do not and they argue that they don't have to. This is a thing in Europe right now, among which tax evasion through the double irish sandwich.

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#344

Post by bigbugbag »

INTPenis wrote: post #143
IIIIIIIIIIII wrote: post #29

This is not the end of the arms race. At some point we will have AI designing and AI delivering ads, and while we may have AI designed to prevent us from having to watch ads we don't want we will also have AI that watches everything, gathering and filtering information that is too much for us to handle but tuned to our needs since it's "our AI". Then the race will be that one AI wants to trick the consumer AI into gi…

Yeah, "end of the arms race", are you kidding me Vice? I see 13 year olds watching their favorite youtube stars showing off the new products they're being sponsored with this week. How exactly would you block this?

Assuming vice is right and this is the end of it and people use it, how do you expect youtube to stay online once google lose its advertising revenue ? This product placement problem just solved itself.

Streaming video on the scale of youtube or facebook is not sustainable due to bandwidth cost.

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#345

Post by bigbugbag »

wernercd wrote: post #61
randomwalker wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coauthor of the paper here. No --- this is not one of the three techniques that we implemented. It was a hypothetical suggestion for future work. Unfortunate that the article didn't make that clear. Here is the paper http://randomwalker.info/publications/ad-blocking-framework-... Here is our blog post about it: https://freedom-to-tinker.com/2017/04/14/the-future-of-ad-bl...

Just a throw out question: One of the biggest issues (IMO) is the security threat... if there is a second copy that "we" don't see, doesn't that mean that the second copy can do "bad things" still? Case in Point: Forbes requests you disable ad-blocker... then serves pop-under malware: http://www.networkworld.com/article/3021113/security/forbes-... I could stomach ads - just like I stomached commercials on TV shows...…

Neuromarketing proved that they do not become white noise, you just stop consciously noticing them and how they affect you[1]. But even if you somehow developed some kind of immunity, you'd still be affected by ads because advertising costs are factored in product prices, when you buy something even if you never seen any of the ads for this product, you're still paying for them.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuromarketing#Study_examples

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#346

Post by bigbugbag »

JBReefer wrote: post #52
iamben wrote: post #45

At risk of being very unpopular, am I the only person that doesn't mind ads? I mean some are pretty intrusive, but largely I'm happy to make the trade off. I'll look at (and maybe click on) your ad, if it means you have the cash to bring me what I want to look at. It's fantastic to think we live in a world where the web can support itself without ads, but it's not really practical, is it? Some stuff I'd support - but…

I have 0 problem with websites that serve up ads that: 1. Are from their own domain 2. Are not flash/autoplaying video 3. Don't track me/aren't ad tech 4. Actually have something to do with the content Run a homebrewing site? Great, run ads for stuff to do with that. I'll probably click on them, I am looking up homebrewing info! Run a homebrewing site that serves me ads for refrigerators, because I looked at one on A…

Apart from duckduckgo, can you share some examples of such websites ?

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#347

Post by flukus »

downandout wrote: post #36

The article puts a significant emphasis on the idea that bulletproof ad-blocking technology, assuming that's what this turns out to be in practice, will work long-term becuase of legal restrictions imposed by the FTC. If Google, Facebook, or other multi-billion dollar entities detect an existential threat arising from this or any other technology, rest assured that the laws will change as quickly as is necessary to k…

Why do you think google has put so much time and effort into controlling the user agent?

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#348

Post by bigbugbag »

clubm8 wrote: post #318
kalleboo wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind ads typically. I still haven't bothered to figure out how to block ads on YouTube. I started out tailoring Ghostery to just block trackers but not ads. But the clickbait ads from taboola and friends were just so terrible (grossly misleading clickbait, half-naked women, tryptophobia) that now I don't feel bad about just blocking everything.

Is Ghostery overkill if you already use NoScript?

Ghostery is tracking and profiling people who block ads for the ad industry. Don't use it. Use ublock origin or umatrix or request policy[1]

you could also use random agent spoofer and better privacy or privacy settings.

[1]: https://requestpolicycontinued.github.io/

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#349

Post by bigbugbag »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #2

What would a post-ad-supported web looks like? Only selling user data without a way to use it to target ads? Consumer software that isn't free? Sock puppet marketing run rampant? It would sure be a different world.

> What would a post-ad-supported web looks like?

Maybe something like steemit

Re: Princeton’s Ad-Blocker May Put an End to the Ad-Blocking Arms Race

#350

Post by bigbugbag »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #41
theandrewbailey wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hearing lots of good things about Patreon, especially from Youtube personalities. I haven't heard of Flattr being used much recently.

Patreon works around the concept of subscriptions, rather than one-off payments. One-off payments seems like the better idea, and a cryptocurrency seems like a natural fit. Perhaps not bitcoin, since the fees are so high, but maybe ethereum or litecoin.

One time payment are bad, they require more overhead and don't provide stability or security. Subscriptions are preferrable.

About cryptocurrence, maybe look at steem and steemit.

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