Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say • Hacker News Board

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#341

Post by ahartman00 » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:27 AM UTC

freeflight wrote: post #300

ahartman00 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People are being funneled into "ideological bubbles"" I'm not as convinced they are being funneled. I remember back in high school, my friends and I would sit around in a circle, in meat space. "War is wrong" And we would go around the circle: "yup", "absolutely", etc "Some other liberal talking point" yup, of course, so true.... I feel they are self selecting. Look at the election, when liberals were 3x more likely…

Keep in mind that in the meat space people consciously chose to socialize with alike people, that's why you called them "friends" and why only "liberal talking points" were discussed. On social media, this happens on a less conscious level because with every choice you make some algorithm slowly "personalizes" everything you get to see a little bit more, thus it increases surfacing things/people that you are more lik…

"Keep in mind that in the meat space people consciously chose to socialize with alike people"

"some algorithm slowly "personalizes" everything you get to see a little bit more"

You're right, I wish I would have wrote: they are not exclusively being funneled. That being said, they are still friending alike people, and not liking stuff which is diverse. I realize I am sort of victim blaming here :(

Basically I have seen a lot of: "the internet causes x", where x existed before. I just wanted to make the point that this is an evolution of a previous phenomenon.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#342

Post by camillomiller » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:29 AM UTC

jknoepfler wrote: post #67

I don't understand this article at all. I participate in two large professional forums (one for poker, one for development). The professionals are winning the internet there. There are dedicated subforums for trolls and random bs, which are pretty funny sometimes, but serve as an outlet for the garbage. I browse hacker news... It is what it is, I'm happy with it as a content sharing platform. My biggest gripe is the…

This was exactly the point of the article. You seem to have built your perfect Elysium, and you surrounded yourself with likeminded enlightened users. This is not representative of the state of the Web, tho. Plus: forums are still great because they're one of those places where you can still have a full anonymity while discussing something you care about.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#343

Post by watwut » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:29 AM UTC

the_af wrote: post #179

watwut wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RTFM are usually jerks acting like jerk and it has nothing to do with seniority or skill. Half of those "harsh" people don't know all that much. Overworked seniors simply don't respond on forums due to lack of time. Seniors with time and willingness to answer answer how they know. RTFM are doing what they are doing just to stroke their own ego. Being jerk does not imply skill nor lack of it. It just being jerk.

I disagree that RTFM'ers are jerks, for reasons I've already explained in other posts (though, again, there are ways and ways of telling someone to RTFM, some nicer than others). Other than that, I agree they are not necessarily more senior or experienced. That's why I used the term "veterans": they are old timers in the community in question, have seen countless newbies come and go, and must suffer the onslaught of…

To answer your question, I eit her ignore asks for help I don't want to answer or say that this section of forum is not intended for beginners questions if that is the case.

Overwhelming majority of RTFM ate not trying to manage community. That involves more then just putting in RTFM with some insults every time you feel like.

I agree that some of rtfm consider themselves community and are trying to put off newcomers - and keep their own social status within forum high. That is just closed circle jerk, exactly like any other. Most of these communities have many other members who form them equally or even more and don't behave this way.

Elaborate faq on how to ask question is great and I would treat it seriosly, assuming the rest of discussion has similarly high standards. Except that rest of discussion is neither precise, nor well pharsed, nothing like that. So yeah, where it is consistent with general quality of discussion, cool. Where it represents double standard, meh.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#344

Post by camillomiller » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:30 AM UTC

pdeuchler wrote: post #137

The internet is as it always was, the only difference is more people, and more importantly more people without technological prowess and forum/bbs/irc experience, are accessing it and moving increasingly larger chunks of their life to the internet. As someone who fell in love with the internet when I was young because nobody knew I was young , it constantly surprises me when people put intimate details online and the…

What about reddit or 4chan, tho? Everyone's anonymous there, and it ain't like the brightest proof for your example. They're mostly the sewer of the Web.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#345

Post by mirimir » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:33 AM UTC

camillomiller wrote: post #344

pdeuchler wrote: post #137

The internet is as it always was, the only difference is more people, and more importantly more people without technological prowess and forum/bbs/irc experience, are accessing it and moving increasingly larger chunks of their life to the internet. As someone who fell in love with the internet when I was young because nobody knew I was young , it constantly surprises me when people put intimate details online and the…

What about reddit or 4chan, tho? Everyone's anonymous there, and it ain't like the brightest proof for your example. They're mostly the sewer of the Web.

That's why people go there. Nobody's forcing you to.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#346

Post by crucialfelix » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:36 AM UTC

bandushrew wrote: post #224

noobermin wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of people who say "don't feed the trolls" have never been the focus of a trolling campaign, I've found. It is easy to claim this when you aren't under constant violent harassment and scrutiny. It is not fair to expect everyone else to have a "battle-hardened" stoicism when you've probably never experienced such a life. I've never experienced such harassment myself and used to sing the "ignore" mantra too…

I have multiple internet presence's. My "real" presence is empty of anything except professional presence. LinkedIn, github etc etc. My "real" presence never engages, never debates and is effectively not there except when it engages with the real world via resumes etc. My actual presence is scattered across the internet in multiple pseudonymous social networks and eagerly discusses topics I am passionate about. It oc…

I don't think the main worry should be about being harmed. Yes, we can all avoid taking it personally and being harmed. We do that by avoiding, by withdrawing, by not engaging. That is the real damage - it is no longer safe to discuss things. People talk about hyper-partisanship but a large part of this is that there are actors who are just in it for the lulz and people that have emotional problems in their lives who use political discussion as a way to exercise their personal anger.

Sure, we can personally stay safe, but public discourse cannot.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#347

Post by IanCal » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:38 AM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #273

eikenberry wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More phones should just come with whitelist support. Where calls will automatically go to voice mail if it isn't on your list. I have this on my phone due to lots of wrong numbers and it works great.

Details puhlease.

Android I'm fairly sure has some relevant things built in. On my Motorola I can set a do not disturb time overnight where only alarms and calls from selected people will come through (and some other options and combinations). This is android 7 settings > sound > do not disturb.

There seem to be a lot of apps for whitelisting generally.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#348

Post by alltakendamned » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:47 AM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #327

WhitneyLand wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they cannot reach out into my real life and actually harm me I would be careful with that assumption. The reason you are not hurt is mostly because people don't want to hurt you. The reward is not high enough. I'm not trying to diminish your importance, for all I know you could be facebook employee #17 or have gold bars buried in your yard. But any of the top security guys will tell you safety is a function of an at…

> banking accounts How would they do this? Access to my bank account requires a password I never use for any other service, and a physical non-internet-connected 2FA token I keep on my person.

You should not assume an attacker would walk in through the front door like you do. There are more components in the stack, all of which could be a worthy target.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#349

Post by watwut » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:48 AM UTC

ashark wrote: post #251

ryandrake wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little exaggerated I think. I don't have a blog, an active GitHub account, and don't use Facebook or Twitter at all. Yet, by some miracle, I have a robust social life and am gainfully employed. I think people overstate the importance of these services (most of which, by the way, did not even exist 15 years ago). I choose to post here but could stop tomorrow and it would have zero effect on my personal or pro…

B-b-but how will I growth hack my way to a 4-hour-workweek selling ebooks about how to growth hack, without constant, obnoxious self promotion under my real name on all corners of the Web?! God's sake, I can't possibly be a thought leader anonymously! You savage.

What you just describes is normal capitalist economy. People selling and promoting stuff. If that person is able to make a living with just 4 hours a week work like that, they are pretty skilled. Are you saying it is ok to harass them out of that business just because you are jealous?

It is nice example of someone who would be really harmed by leaving.

Re: Trolls are winning the internet, technologists say

#350

Post by watwut » Sat, Apr 01, 2017, 7:50 AM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #219

watwut wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Twitter/facebook/email can all be erased." That can mean professional or social isolation for quite a lot of people - or at least disadvantage. The moment your blog, github account, facebook account or twitters matters for employers, peers, business, conferences you would like talk at or negotiations is the moment when walking away affects you.

That's a little exaggerated I think. I don't have a blog, an active GitHub account, and don't use Facebook or Twitter at all. Yet, by some miracle, I have a robust social life and am gainfully employed. I think people overstate the importance of these services (most of which, by the way, did not even exist 15 years ago). I choose to post here but could stop tomorrow and it would have zero effect on my personal or pro…

Congrats. And everyone else is expected to be exactly like you and have nice real world community and job that does not involve real identity on the Internet. Gotcha.