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Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

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Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#341

Post by seppin »

emodendroket wrote: post #102
alkonaut wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The safety comes from the idea that they would, which is what keeps the bad thing from happening. If there is any doubt that the US would go to war, that ironically increases the risk that they would. So basically - one says one would definitely go to war. Simply because then you maximize the chance of avoiding it. Donald Trumps administration didn't get the memo I think, when they started being vague on who might be…

Well, that's the theory, yeah. I think there's been some question about some of the newer NATO members for some time though. http://www.interpretermag.com/americans-are-prepared-to-die-...

Americans were willing to die in Iraq, and we still don't know "why" they did.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#343

Post by mindcrime »

seppin wrote: post #340
mindcrime wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War will never be "over", but it can be minimized. One good way to do that is through (real) free trade. Countries that depend on each other economically are generally less likely to go to war with each other. Wasn't it Jack Ma who said "when trade stops, war starts"?

> War will never be "over", but it can be minimized. You are right. In the past 60 years, since NATO/UN/Pax Americana there has been less war than any other time in recorded history. And you, as well as countless others in MAGA hats are celebrating it's downfall. Unless you are Putin himself, or an sadist, I don't understand your position.

since NATO/UN/Pax Americana there has been less war than any other time in recorded history.

So is that the benchmark then? Just "lowest in history"? How much lower can we get in absolute terms? I think we can do much better.

And you, as well as countless others in MAGA hats are celebrating it's downfall.

Not sure if you're somehow thinking that I'm one of those MAGA people or not, but if so, believe me, nothing could be further from the truth. I'm more of a MEGA (Make Earth Great Again) person. My position, vis-a-vis the US specifically, is that we need to quit with the empire building and radical interventionism all over the world. More broadly, I posit that encouraging free trade among all nations of the world is one of the best routes to minimizing war.

I also think that a lot of terrorism is rooted in blowback as a result of our (USA) activities in the rest of the world. Maybe, for example, we could have a lot less tension with, say, Iran, if we hadn't meddled in their affairs so much in the past. That is, of course, just one example.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#344

Post by owebmaster »

fictioncircle wrote: post #336
owebmaster wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love when people think the results they like are fair election and the others are rigged.

> I love when people think the results they like are fair election and the others are rigged. So you don't have any evidence and Russia was caught red handed that they lied about the results...and that is your response? LOL. K. Look, when you get caught lying about the election...yeah, people tend to believe the fact you are lying when it benefits you.

Fake News.

Look, I don't mind agreeing with you that Russia invaded and annexed a part of Ukraine. But what in this situation makes it inherently different from the malvine islands war and annexation? Just the links? Someone could think that your reasoning is unrealiably biased, and get back to the question of Ukraine and Russia and get some doubts if it is really a good reasoning (Russia annexed a past part of itself) or just common sense prejudice against some causes. I could almost say beforehand what is your opinion about Israel and the Palestina state.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#345

Post by [deleted] »

fictioncircle wrote: post #336
owebmaster wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love when people think the results they like are fair election and the others are rigged.

> I love when people think the results they like are fair election and the others are rigged. So you don't have any evidence and Russia was caught red handed that they lied about the results...and that is your response? LOL. K. Look, when you get caught lying about the election...yeah, people tend to believe the fact you are lying when it benefits you.

[deleted]

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#346

Post by seppin »

mindcrime wrote: post #343
seppin wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> War will never be "over", but it can be minimized. You are right. In the past 60 years, since NATO/UN/Pax Americana there has been less war than any other time in recorded history. And you, as well as countless others in MAGA hats are celebrating it's downfall. Unless you are Putin himself, or an sadist, I don't understand your position.

since NATO/UN/Pax Americana there has been less war than any other time in recorded history. So is that the benchmark then? Just "lowest in history"? How much lower can we get in absolute terms? I think we can do much better. And you, as well as countless others in MAGA hats are celebrating it's downfall. Not sure if you're somehow thinking that I'm one of those MAGA people or not, but if so, believe me, nothing coul…

> I think we can do much better.

I think things could be a lot worse. I have history and data to back me up, where does your opinion come from?

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#347

Post by germanier »

Elrac wrote: post #332
DarkKomunalec wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fleeing from countries such as Turkey, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, and Slovenia? And pretending there are only two options - let them stay forever, or gun them down at the border, is dishonest at best. We ship food half way around the world, there's no reason wealthy countries can't fund refugee camps and in general help and give aid to countries that accept refugees. This would also reduce the number…

First of all, governments are for the most part able to differentiate between refugees and economically driven immigrants - the main influx of refugees in Germany and other European countries these days is from Syria, and it's not easy for Croats, say, or Slovenes to pass themselves off as Syrians. So unsurprisingly enough, we're not seeing a huge influx of Eastern Europeans - partly thanks to sensible limits on immi…

There are no limits on immigration for people from Croatia or Slovenia in the EU. They could move over here to Germany tomorrow and immediately start working. They can't immediately apply for welfare though.

Syrians are not the only significant refugee group, there is also Afghanistan and Iran in the top 3. Together they currently make up about a third of all applications for asylum in Germany according to BAMF.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#348

Post by jacquesm »

a-saleh wrote: post #271
Gustomaximus wrote: post #77

From the article: "It needs to move toward more military integration, which means streamlining procurement. European armies use too many different weapons systems: seventeen main battle tank families compared with just one for the U.S.; 20 types of fighter planes compared with just six; and 13 kinds of air-to-air missiles compared with three." While I dont doubt there are efficiencies to be had, I feel they fail to r…

I heard interesting comment in one of newspapers I was reading, proposing a closer union between Baltic countries, Poland and Scandinavia. The argument was that these countries combined have roughly the army spending around half of Russia spending. And to be frank, you should be quite worried about Russia doing the invading iff: * you have significant russian minority * your population can speak russian * you border…

Not to mention the issue of Kaliningrad.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#349

Post by eddiedunn »

bad_user wrote: post #160
DarkKomunalec wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenophobia, or rational self-interest? How is the common worker better-off by allowing immigration? The only advantage I can think of is having the option of abandoning their country to seek better fortunes elsewhere (assuming immigration is a two-way street). What about the great majority who wish to stay in their own countries?

I would call it stupidity, because the biggest threat to jobs is provably automation and not immigrants. Immigrants are occupying either the low end jobs that nobody wants, like what you get in agriculture (e.g. strawberry pickers - if you don't know how that's like, try it out ;-)), cleaning services, etc, or they are occupying the high end jobs, like what you get in Silicon Valley, an industry that creates jobs, or…

Threats of job security might not be the only threat they see. In a society with a lot of automation where you need a high level of education just to get a job, taking in a lot of unskilled immigrants means very few of them will be able to land a job, and overall poverty will rise.

Poverty is detrimental to societal security.

Re: Why Europe Is Warning of Pax Americana's End

#350

Post by fictioncircle »

owebmaster wrote: post #344
fictioncircle wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love when people think the results they like are fair election and the others are rigged. So you don't have any evidence and Russia was caught red handed that they lied about the results...and that is your response? LOL. K. Look, when you get caught lying about the election...yeah, people tend to believe the fact you are lying when it benefits you.

Fake News. Look, I don't mind agreeing with you that Russia invaded and annexed a part of Ukraine. But what in this situation makes it inherently different from the malvine islands war and annexation? Just the links? Someone could think that your reasoning is unrealiably biased, and get back to the question of Ukraine and Russia and get some doubts if it is really a good reasoning (Russia annexed a past part of itsel…

In other words, you have 0 evidence. K. I'm done.
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