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Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

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341–350 of 394 posts

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#341
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at the end of it you get a free house for hardly any labour. Yes you have to do a bit now and again but it's hardly a full time job that your tenants have to do to cover your mortgage. I never understand why you guys are doing it if you don't gain. You are doing it because it is easy money, an easy way to extract labour. What are you expecting anyway in terms of an ongoing income stream from this endeavor? It's v…

The rewards roughly do reflect this. Ordinary investing isn't clearly better or worse than investing in property. The problem is that ordinary investing requires many years of self discipline while paying a mortgage has the bank holding a stick over you to keep you from wasting your income on lattes and holidays.

"investing"? What are people who take an existing home to restrict supply, then rent it back out, "investing" in? Extorting more like.

Disipline paying they mortgage! Is that a skill now, taking $1500 from a worker, trousering $300 then handing the rest to a bank.

You are the debt collectors for the banks. Distributed extortion. No skill there yet the rewards for parasites are huge.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#342
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please post this on the front page - it's in the collective interest that that gets broad readership, otherwise confusion will reign, particularly if you're pruning threads which ask about it! For instance, could have saved me several posts.

Good idea. I can't post it or pin it to the front page, but I created a submission with a link to the thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13137864 I can't comment on the submission to give it any context, so if you want to add some, please do. 'dang: if this was inappropriate, please let me know and take it down.

It was marked as [dead] but I've vouched for it. @dang, hope that's OK.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#343

Compound that with the percentage of income 30 year olds spend on housing, education, health care and child care compared to their parents and we have a recipe for disaster.

The sense of entitlement is a lot higher these days. I grew up in a 900 sqft house with 1 bathroom. Yet all my peers (myself included) seek out homes 2x, 3x or bigger. Same with cars.... my parents bought used, reliable cars. Today we want fancy things. Growing up we had cable tv and a phone line. Probably spent $50/month total. The family cellphone bill, home broadband, various tv services easily top out over $300/m…

I absolutely disagree with this sentiment. I'm just at the 30 mark with many of my coworkers and friends in their mid 20s. The only entitlements they ever talk about are work related and that's because it's all we have to turn to when we're sick (like a pit crew on a track, we need to know we can get fixed up and back out there ASAP.)

Growing up I remember similar things as you do. Limited dining out, basic cable, etc. But that was a combined income household, and in my neighborhood, that usually meant the dad was a union guy and the mom was a 9-5'r. Back when there were fruitful jobs outside of the city.

Now, here I am, 10 years after the same point my parents became parents, happy to just now reach a point of self sustaining income that will finally dent my debt. Having now lived through 2 economic collapses, several major terrorist attacks, unpredictable employment, total displacement of entire industries, and a political environment that fuels extremists and extreme actions, I can't imagine making any kind of plans beyond the next 2 years, much less a lifetime.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#344
post #30

Compound that with the percentage of income 30 year olds spend on housing, education, health care and child care compared to their parents and we have a recipe for disaster.

Most consumers are tapped out, bad news for a consumer driven economy. There can only be so much more debt accrued.

You can always inflate debt away (if you control your currency).

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#345
post #340
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far automation has not resulted in net fewer jobs, but more productive jobs replacing more mundane ones. That has been the story throughout human history. I see no evidence that is going to change. Indeed "AI" has so far only created jobs, not killed them.

>So far automation has not resulted in net fewer jobs Yes. Yes it has. Manufacturing has seen hundred of thousands of jobs replaced. And the amount of software developers or maintenance jobs created to make that work doesn't even begin to cover what has been lost. As far as job creation goes, guess you'll have to check that up with the ever growing percentage of unemployment throughout first world countries.

yes there's less manufacturing jobs. There's also less farming jobs, and less clerical jobs, and fewer blacksmiths, cobblers, seamstresses and about a 1,000 other professions too. But the developed world is at near full employment.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's great when there's perspectives from the non-typical-HN reader, it's easy to forget how exceptional most people's lives are here. So, with that upbringing, how did you end up doing machining and precision manufacturing? And how'd you wind up on Hacker News? What brand of CNC machines do you work with?

Thank you for the encouraging words. I try and check HN every day before my shift but I usually never have time to comment until much later, at which point there isn't much activity in the threads, so I sometimes wonder whether or not my posts add any value or if I'm just writing for myself. With regards to how I ended up in my current job I'll do my best to offer a succinct timeline. My prior work experience consist…

Well life seems to have worked out fairly well for you so that's good. Not sure why you worry about your writing, seems fine to me.

How many machines are in your shop? Do you guys happen to use any software that monitors all the machines so you can see various charts and what not on uptime, downtime by reason, that sort of thing?

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#347
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And to top it off, we're working less than we ever have This really struck me. I am going to assume your numbers ar correct, but if you could point me to a source I would love that. (did a quick search on the web, couldn't find exactly what I would like) My first thought was that it is fascinating that we would be working 12% less hours per person. I wonder how that break down by gender. The number I keep finding i…

First, homemakers aren't unemployed. They just work at different things. Second, look at the employment rate charted over the last forty years or so. Some of that may be explained by retiring baby boomers, but it's the following generations that will need to pick up the economic slack to pay for retirement, healthcare, prop up their home values so they can retire, etc.

>First, homemakers aren't unemployed. They just work at different things.

So you are agreeing - since before one person was devoted full time to homemaking, and now they must find paid employment - that work still needs to be done so it must be done in addition to the hours worked at an employer.

so instead of one person doing 40 hours at an employer and one person staying home to keep up the house - we have two people working 40 hours each and then working overtime to maintain their house after work. We've added 40 hours of work to the equation.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree entirely that work is the best way to feel needed, and that feeling needed is necessary. I work because I have to, not because I care about working. If I didn't have to work, I wouldn't. I would spend time on personal projects and enjoying my life with my friends. Relationships are far better than work for "feeling needed". To be honest though, I don't care about being needed. I don't need to exist. I like…

I understand what you’re saying but I wouldn’t completely dismiss the psychological effect that a sense of feeling needed or the pride you can gain from work has on many people. The sense of being needed may not be important to you, and to be clear I make no negative judgement about that, in fact I’m glad to hear from anyone whose own self worth or happiness isn’t tied to their job as this probably leads to much rich…

Thank you for sharing, it's good to get outside perspectives on issues like this. I'll share a bit about myself as well, so you can get a better idea of where I'm coming from.

I don't consider myself on par with most of the stuff I see here either. I consider myself above average intelligence, but nothing special. I'm not particularly creative, but I love being part of the creative process with other people. If there's something I pride myself on, it's my ability to facilitate meaningful and effective conversation. I'm not very confident in myself; I think my above average intelligence lead me into contact with enough people who are simply smarter and work harder than me that I don't have any false notions of grandeur.

I get how work can provide you with a sense of purpose, I really do. One of the things I would do, assuming I didn't have to work, is volunteer for a non-profit that tackles an issue/issues I feel are important (like clean water for everyone). My personal projects would basically be two lifelong ones and whatever else caught my fancy. The first would be a music recommendation system that works differently from most others I've seen (any I've seen? copyright Jeff Holland, 2016): it would let you find music in genres you normally don't or have never listened to. The idea is, you can say "I like Queens of the Stone Age. What rap artists do QotSA fans like?" and it would suggest artists (and songs) accordingly. The great thing is, the sky is the limit when it comes to refining and expanding something like that, the challenges are technical and algorithmic. The second project would be a traditional roguelike with a different progression model for characters and story than is usual, with a technical focus on being truly cross-platform and providing a means of playing games via TLS on a central server (a la DCSS).

I know that was probably way more information than you wanted, but I wanted to give you some background on me. I'm not amazing or confident, but I do have a few things I'm passionate about. If either one of my personal projects was successful I would be incredibly happy. It doesn't even have to make me money if it makes enough to be self sustaining and the users find it worthwhile. All to say, I understand the feeling you can get from producing something valuable for others, and even enjoy it. I made a conscious decision when I was young(er) to disconnect that from my sense of self-worth, and it's now ingrained in me.

Essentially, my hobbies take the place of where the need to feel wanted would be. There's so much out there to enjoy that I don't mind if I'm not necessary (are any of us, really?); I can share the things I love and appreciate with others.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wealth is a logical fiction we've invented, as to who has what monetary claims we enforce, and we can bend this fiction to our goals What would the transition from our current state to one with significantly altered monetary claims look like? Would it be a voluntary transition, or a forceful one?

I may be reading too much into what you are getting at with your second question, but: What does it even mean to draw that distinction in this context? Our current state is already a forceful one (as would be any other distribution of claims with any real power of enforcement). Wealth, like anything else, is ultimately enforced by, er, force. (E.g.: What is it for you to own land? It's the ability to have me forceful…

The people having their money removed from them may have a word or two to say about the plan.

Re: Barely Half of 30-Year-Olds in the U.S. Earn More Than Their Parents Did at 30

#350
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the distribution of income had gone unchanged, the spread of wealth would also be unchanged. How so? Let's say I build a popular, free, social media network. My income from the free service is zero, but the popularity has investors (which could even be average Joes pooling their money together) quite willing to buy it for millions of dollars. My wealth has now increased by millions without a respective change in…

If you click on the only link in the article, you will see they are measuring children’s and parents’ pre-tax incomes at the household level. This absolutely does include retirement account investment income. While I have you here: why didn't you check that before replying? (I'm actually really confused why this seems to happen constantly on HN. These are really easy things to check before posting.)

I'm not sure I follow? The point is that wealth can be created out of nothing. It does not require income to amass. As such, income can go unchanged, while wealth can concentrate among those producing specific things of value.

Your link does not help clear up my understanding of your premise. Perhaps it would pay to be more specific when composing your comments?

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