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Re: undefined

#341

Post by DominikR »

madaxe_again wrote: post #287
_tpzm wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is a libertarian I just find this impossible to reconcile with his support for Trump, the most authoritarian presidential candidate in a very long time and possibly ever. I think many of his supporters would actually agree with that description, they like that about him, and they absolutely do not describe themselves as libertarian. They describe themselves as "conservatives" who want a "strong" president to "ta…

Conversely, he could from a family like mine - my Omi is Austrian, along with a slew of cousins. Dinner table conversation still turns to how things would have been better had herr Hitler won. My uncle has to leave the room he so vociferously objects to his mother and his children. So, that collective memory swings both ways. Maybe Thiel lacks education in history and pines for a glorious fictitious past, which is a…

Hitler was a Socialist, not a right wing politician. That's what you Austrians/Germans get wrong.

Hitler enacted a 70% income tax for the highest incomes, implemented a full welfare state, free childcare, free schools, free everything to force propaganda down their throats. He was an arts student (probably he would have done well with SJW's of today), a vegetarian, anti smoking, pro animal rights, anti religion etc.

The right wing wants to get rid of all mandatory welfare and government influence on our lives in order to make it impossible for authoritarians like Hitler to hijack the system.

German people in specific are culturally one of least capable in understanding what freedom actually means. That's something that makes them unique in Europe. (and btw the main reason why Benjamin Franklin was so critical of allowing Germans into the US - he feared that they would subvert the system and freedoms with their hive mind mentality)

Re: undefined

#342

Post by morgante »

forgetsusername wrote: post #335
morgante wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump is not an authoritarian He fits very squarely into the definition of an authoritarian. His greatest goal is "power" and he openly praises authoritarian leaders like Hussein and Putin. His supported policies include registration of minorities, torture, curtailing of the free press, restriction of religious freedom, and reprisals against political enemies—all straight out of the authoritarian playbook. At this…

> "His supported policies include registration of minorities, Do you have a source for this? What is considered a "minority"? I thought it was directed at "illegal immigrants", which I agree is a dumb idea. But saying it applies to "minorities" is a stretch. > torture, curtailing of the free press, restriction of religious freedom, and reprisals against political enemies" How much worse is it to openly support these…

> Do you have a source for this?

There are two different proposals I'm thinking of. One for making a national registry of all Muslims in the United States (a religious minority) and another for police being able to demand immigration papers at any time. The problem is that there isn't any way to look at someone and say they are an "illegal immigrant" so you end up with a totalitarian regime where police are stopping minorities and demanding to see their papers.

I honestly don't know how anyone can look at Trump and say he's not an authoritarian. He literally advocates stuff straight out of a comic book authoritarian regime: "stop and show me your papers."

> How much worse is it to openly support these things, than to say you don't support them, but do so behind the scenes?

Much worse. Openly advocating something so abhorrent pushes it into the room of acceptability and makes doing it acceptable en mass. It's the difference between the occasional hate crime and genocide. When something is unacceptable, you can't do it too much of it or you risk causing a scandal.

I also having a lot of trouble agreeing that these things "happened under the watch of nearly every politician I can think of." Has Obama thrown political enemies in prison? Has Hillary asked her supporters to violently attack enemies? Heck, has Bush tried to ban an entire religion from the United States? Citations severely needed.

Re: undefined

#343

Post by abcampbell »

Senji wrote: post #275
_yvjs wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Thiel described himself as "libertarian" recently? Even if he has, I'm not sure he means it in the same sense as the general population. I like Samuel Hammond's analysis. His shorthand for Thiel's political philosophy is "corporate feudalism": https://medium.com/@hamandcheese/why-peter-thiels-endorsemen... https://medium.com/soapbox-dc/peter-thiels-plan-to-become-ce... Strange to be investing this late in the rac…

Neoreactionary(NRx). Dark Enlightenment.

Why doesn't someone just ask him why he's giving the money.

He's participating the democratic process, would be interested to hear his rationale rather than a bunch of speculations about what he may or may not believe.

Re: undefined

#344

Post by abcampbell »

newscracker wrote: post #176
morgante wrote: post #29

I'm genuinely curious what the rational for Thiel is in doing this. He's a smart guy, but I just don't see the ROI. At this point, it seems very unlikely that Trump will get elected. So Thiel isn't getting access to a future President. Plus, in addition to the monetary cost of the donation there's definitely a very real reputational cost. A lot of people in SV hate Trump and are completely mystified as to Thiel's sup…

> I'm genuinely curious what the rational for Thiel is in doing this. He's a smart guy, but I just don't see the ROI. I personally see him more of a cunning guy than just smart because I find his actions disturbing.

Seems like the kind of questions Twitter was designed for no? Has anyone asked?

Re: undefined

#345

Post by DominikR »

bantunes wrote: post #276
tvural wrote: post #264

Thiel might have ulterior motives, but his support of Trump is not too surprising if you've listened to his other ideas. He feels that the political agenda has been overrun by distractions, like "who can use which bathroom", at the expense of real problems, like the stagnation of median wages over the last forty years. He prefers the days when the national conversation was about how to beat the Soviets, and sees the…

That's all well and good, but Trump is still a terrible option. He never held office, he doesn't know how the system works, and doesn't have the temperament to be commander-in-chief. His tax plan will add trillions in debt over the next decade, and will only benefit the rich in the long run. So excuse me if I think Thiel just wants to pay less tax and sue people that piss him off. It's the rich coming to power in a m…

So he does not know the system but you know it well enough to know that his plan will add trillions to the debt?

Re: undefined

#346

Post by forgetsusername »

mattmanser wrote: post #325
Shivetya wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sadly I find his opponent to be more dangerous as the press and Congress will likely never call her out regardless of what she chooses to do. already a proven welfare warfare queen we can expect simply more of the same. At least with Trump we know the press will nip his heels everyday and misstep and Congress will not be friendly. we haven't had an adversarial press in eight years and only one adversarial party in th…

As a foreigner, I really don't get this attitude. Hillary's a hawk, so let's support the obviously erratic, racist, bigoted, tax-dodging, incompetent, incoherent, sexually assaulting idiot who looks very much like a new Hitler and thinks if you win an election you get to lock up your opponents like a crazy third world state. Boggles my mind that 'Murica' 'Freedom' can bring out such a petty, childish and obviously se…

>So what is it about Trump that's so compelling that is not reported to us?

It isn't complicated: there is an apparently large population of Americans who are tired of the establishment. Things have not been well for them for many years; wages are stagnant, they haven't benefited from the recovery much. These people don't want to see another politically established Bush or Clinton in the Whitehouse. This was embodied by Bernie Sanders on the left, and Donald Trump on the right.

Trump is the "I'm sick of politicians" vote, and benefits from "right place, right time".

Re: undefined

#347

Post by viraptor »

forgetsusername wrote: post #335
morgante wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump is not an authoritarian He fits very squarely into the definition of an authoritarian. His greatest goal is "power" and he openly praises authoritarian leaders like Hussein and Putin. His supported policies include registration of minorities, torture, curtailing of the free press, restriction of religious freedom, and reprisals against political enemies—all straight out of the authoritarian playbook. At this…

> "His supported policies include registration of minorities, Do you have a source for this? What is considered a "minority"? I thought it was directed at "illegal immigrants", which I agree is a dumb idea. But saying it applies to "minorities" is a stretch. > torture, curtailing of the free press, restriction of religious freedom, and reprisals against political enemies" How much worse is it to openly support these…

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-has-big-plans-130311...

> Yahoo News asked Trump whether this level of tracking might require registering Muslims in a database or giving them a form of special identification that noted their religion. He wouldn’t rule it out.

> “We’re going to have to — we’re going to have to look at a lot of things very closely,” Trump said when presented with the idea. “We’re going to have to look at the mosques. We’re going to have to look very, very carefully.”

Re: undefined

#348

Post by chrischen »

_tpzm wrote: post #282
tvural wrote: post #264

Thiel might have ulterior motives, but his support of Trump is not too surprising if you've listened to his other ideas. He feels that the political agenda has been overrun by distractions, like "who can use which bathroom", at the expense of real problems, like the stagnation of median wages over the last forty years. He prefers the days when the national conversation was about how to beat the Soviets, and sees the…

> He is a libertarian I just find this impossible to reconcile with his support for Trump, the most authoritarian presidential candidate in a very long time and possibly ever. I think many of his supporters would actually agree with that description, they like that about him, and they absolutely do not describe themselves as libertarian. They describe themselves as "conservatives" who want a "strong" president to "ta…

As a libertarian he believes in survival of the fittest, so a lot of his strategy involves "fuck shit up" and see what survives. Or just letting things sort themselves out.

Re: undefined

#350

Post by forgetsusername »

ubernostrum wrote: post #331
sangnoir wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was working at Mozilla when this was going on. I likely would've quit if Eich had remained I don't know you or what you did at Mozilla: if it were up to me, I would rather had you quit than Eich (no offense). Frankly, Mozilla has lost focus and I think it would have done much better under Eich. Edit: more thoughts on the politics. Eich's opinion was far from controversial- half of Americans held the same belief.…

As I've said in other comments, I think the line is when you decide to move from "I believe this" to "the law should enforce my beliefs on everyone". There have been plenty of people calling to pressure people who support Trump; pg is one of them, and has been getting lit up on Twitter recently for continuing to work with Thiel. Finally, you seem to think this is something unique to "left wing politics". Which is per…

>left-wing movements tend to resort to social pressure, boycotts and similar methods. Right-wing movements tend to attempt to outlaw or in some cases just literally exterminate the people who disagree with them.

Do you have any evidence that those politically aligned to the right are more accepting of, say, murder than those on the left? Because I don't believe it.

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