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Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

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Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#341

Post by danielweber »

Frondo wrote: post #35
VonGuard wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no benefit. The benefit is for the legislatures who passed the law. There was no way that we'd get single payer here in the US because our Congress is very much in the pocket of the health care industry. As such, the markets were a compromise measure enacted by congress to make it easier for people to choose health care. Before Obamacare, it was sort of a black box where only HR people could figure out prici…

Obamacare has had one significant, lasting effect: culturally, the idea is now that everyone should have access to health care. That's the default. Bringing in a public option will be an easy, natural next step, if not for Clinton, then for whoever succeeds her.

I have low-income friends who have no more access to health care now than they did 8 years ago. They either wade through Medicaid paperwork, or have huge deductible plans, or just have no insurance at all. (I don't know what they are doing about the penalty.)

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#342

Post by dragonwriter »

danielweber wrote: post #20
saosebastiao wrote: post #6

Good. Block their deal, let them drop out of obamacare, and then give us the Single Payer that we've always deserved and watch those fuckers go bankrupt like they've always deserved.

Anyone who thinks this is leading to single-payer is dreaming. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, the political will wasn't there for in 6 years ago, and there is much less political will for it now.

There's a lot more political will for a "public option" now (largely because the people who have said it wasn't necessary in the ACA-style setup and that private insurers -- augmented by the coops that the ACA created a framework for -- would step up have increasingly been proven wrong.) Whether a public option is a step on the road to single payer depends on a number of things, including how private insurers respond.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#343

Post by danielweber »

Jhsto wrote: post #303
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't healthcare list prices in the US really really distorted and nonsensical, due to decades of messed up incentives between hospitals and insurers?

Cannot speak for the cause, but the prices are distorted. I was taken to ER a couple of months ago and x-ray of chest cost $3500 and CT of chest $5500. The equivalent prices at the private sector of my home country would have been $70 and $120 and I could have gotten those done just as quickly as in ER in US.

In most places in the US, you can't even get list prices. Calling up providers for quotes gets you hung up on.

Singapore, which has a significant market portion to their health care industry, mandates posting of prices.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#344

Post by gnaritas »

dang wrote: post #327
gnaritas2 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please try and think for 2 seconds instead of responding to the first stupid idea that jumps into your brain; obviously I'm referring to passing such a law today, what happened historically isn't relevant. But you've shown your colors, you have no intention of actually hearing anything said to you because you're more interested in arguing utterly stupid diversions of the main topic. You ignored everything said except…

As we've told you many times, you can't comment like this here. And certainly you can't create separate accounts to do it with. I've banned this one. You're a longstanding user and we've bent over backwards not to ban you, despite serious abuses on your part. The situation isn't going to stay this way.

You're being absurd, all I said was "no you're not thinking clearly" in response to being accused of not thinking clearly. I was perfectly civil, and I created another account because of your unjustified slow ban on me. I've bent over backward conforming to your absolutely inhuman and ridiculous civility rules that expect people to never ever ever have the slightest conflict with one another. I behaved fine, check yourself, I didn't start this conflict, he did.

As you seem to be dying to ban me, then ban me already; I'll just bounce through a proxy and open another account, you know as well as I do there's really nothing you can do to keep me off the site and that your best option is to keep me civil, which I've been doing for quite a while, so drop the empty threats please.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#345

Post by danielweber »

dragonwriter wrote: post #342
danielweber wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who thinks this is leading to single-payer is dreaming. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, the political will wasn't there for in 6 years ago, and there is much less political will for it now.

There's a lot more political will for a "public option" now (largely because the people who have said it wasn't necessary in the ACA-style setup and that private insurers -- augmented by the coops that the ACA created a framework for -- would step up have increasingly been proven wrong.) Whether a public option is a step on the road to single payer depends on a number of things, including how private insurers respond…

The coops have not been doing well. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/12-bi...

A proper public option receives no more government support than a private company does. If answering to political pressure instead of answering to a board of directors turns out to be an amazing thing for health care efficiency, single-payer could be on its way. I think that's dreaming by people who have never run anything in their life, but I also think that they should be free to try and fail, as long as it's a genuine same-as-a-private-company public option.

When you want something to happen politically, you need to work from a position of strength. If you have had a bunch of failures recently, people will not trust whatever new promises you are making. (And saying the failures were someone else's fault is the worst excuse of all. It's not like all those people you blame the problems on have died.)

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#346

Post by jessaustin »

gozur88 wrote: post #231
jessaustin wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think that was as clear to the sponsors of the ACA as it was to you?

If by "sponsors" you mean the political leaders, then yes. They knew they were fudging the books. They explicitly abused the GAO ten year window to make it look like there would be enough money even though the wheels were due to start coming off after seven years. They also had enough political experience to know getting the (delayed) more unpopular parts (like cuts in payments to doctors accepting Medicare, increase…

"Sponsor" is a standard term with a widely accepted meaning when discussing Congress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsor_(legislative)

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#347

Post by gozur88 »

jessaustin wrote: post #346
gozur88 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "sponsors" you mean the political leaders, then yes. They knew they were fudging the books. They explicitly abused the GAO ten year window to make it look like there would be enough money even though the wheels were due to start coming off after seven years. They also had enough political experience to know getting the (delayed) more unpopular parts (like cuts in payments to doctors accepting Medicare, increase…

"Sponsor" is a standard term with a widely accepted meaning when discussing Congress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsor_(legislative)

Yes, and it's a word with other meanings as well. That's the one I thought you meant, but I wasn't sure.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#348

Post by jasonlotito »

mhurron wrote: post #260
jasonlotito wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You must be pretty healthy or never actually had to pay for care in the US. Wrong. You probably shouldn't assume you know anything about me, or the situation I'm in. > You also probably shouldn't assume you're the only one in the room who moved to the US from another country. You probably shouldn't assume that it matters. > The first place I lived had someone who lived I was referring to problems with the system as…

> I was referring to problems with the system as a whole for entire groups of people, not just individual stories. This person is not an isolated incident. Major medical care in the US is far more expensive than any other nation on the planet and for a large number of people in the US life saving care means financial ruin. > My children being one of those where the Canadian system fails them horribly. You can't be se…

> You can't be serious. Need your child to see their primary care physician in the US because it has a fever?

I'm not referring to a simple thing like a fever. I'm referring to more serious things, like autism.

> That appointment is probably a week or more out,

We got assistance from the US before we moved here.

> in Canada, they will see that child that day.

The wait time was years. Literally.

> The US system is entirely around how well you can afford to be.

The services that specifically benefit my children's autism has nothing to do with how much I can afford, or my level of insurance. In Canada, however, it would have cost me $30k+ a year to get assistance in the shortest amount of time, and that was still after a 1.5 year wait.

You are making assumptions, all wrong, about the situation my family is in. If you want to pretend that Canada offered better care for them, be my guest. I just hope you never have to go through what we had to go through. It was horrible, and your blind assumption that Canadian health care is superior in all cases is because you choose to remain ignorant of it's problems.

> There are no benefits to the US healthcare system unless you are rich, a doctor or an insurance company.

Or, in my case, I love my child and don't want to see him abused by a corrupted system.

Willful ignorance is a bad thing.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#349

Post by jasonlotito »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #266
jasonlotito wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For the citizen, none. Actually, that's false. I can assure you that having lived in Canada and having moved to the US because of health care, having options beyond "deal with it" when not getting any sort of care or service is wonderful. Single-payer is great if you are actually getting the care you need. But when it fails, you are left with little to no alternative. What's worse is that because of the perception…

I read the other comments to this comment, and I'll agree that you must either have money or decent health care coverage, probably a combination of the two. I read differing stories about the Canadian health care system: Some places it works out better than others, no system is perfect. I'm American, I live in Norway. The system isn't perfect here either, but I never want to go back. Here it is mostly single payer, w…

> I read the other comments to this comment, and I'll agree that you must either have money or decent health care coverage, probably a combination of the two.

That's incorrect. The benefits I receive have nothing to do with my insurance or my salary.

> Here it is mostly single payer, with some blips, but folks can choose a private doctor if they'd like to and can pay for the difference in cost.

Autism support in Canada falls into this "blip." Unfortunately, it's not as easy as going to a private doctor. Just because you need services now doesn't mean you can pay to get it, even if you had the money.

Sorry, but the idea that there are no benefits to the US system over the Canadian system is simply false. In my case, the US was cheaper, faster, and superior in ever way.

What I was lucky to have was the ability to make that decision to move. Canadians generally don't have that choice.

Re: Aetna CEO Threatened Obamacare Pullout If Feds Opposed Humana Merger

#350

Post by jasonlotito »

holdenk wrote: post #167
mhurron wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be pretty healthy or never actually had to pay for care in the US. You also probably shouldn't assume you're the only one in the room who moved to the US from another country. I moved to the US from Canada, thankfully I am pretty healthy and don't need the healthcare system beyond my yearly checkups. The first place I lived had someone who lived down the street who will be paying off a $100k bill until they…

So I agree the US health care system is pretty crap - but as a trans person it was still better than my options in my home province (and by options I mean option). I think we can all agree that there are corner cases for each system where they outperform the other.

Apparently we can't agree that there are no benefits. =/ Every time I suggest issues with Canadian healthcare and how in some cases, the US healthcare system is better, people assume it's all a lie. And, well, frankly, that's why it won't get better.

At least the US is having that discussion.

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