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Bootcamps vs. College

blog.triplebyte.com

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Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#341

Post by uptownfunk »

tetrep wrote: post #245
Jormundir wrote: post #207

These results aren't very surprising because this is about interviewing performance. The goal of bootcamps is "teach you enough to get a job"; they're basically gaming the interview process by teaching to the test. University programs on the other hand are "teach you CS theory"; learning to interview well is up to the student and the specific school's offering of interview training. I think there's a strong argument…

> I think there's a strong argument to make that university programs are too focused on theory... Is there? I found practical programming knowledge to be very easy to pick up due to having piles of theory that back up why it's a good idea, why it makes sense to do so, etc. You just need someone or something to tell you to do it. It's why side projects are such a good idea, you get a great wealth of knowledge just fro…

At the least something like a 1 unit weekly seminar on how to approach interviews would be super helpful. It would also make it feel like Unis were coming from a good place if they said "Hey, we're gonna teach you the theory, but we're also gonna make sure you kickass at an interview as well so that you come out strong when looking for a job". I'd really appreciate that attitude more.

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#342

Post by AnimalMuppet »

serge2k wrote: post #340
Jormundir wrote: post #207

These results aren't very surprising because this is about interviewing performance. The goal of bootcamps is "teach you enough to get a job"; they're basically gaming the interview process by teaching to the test. University programs on the other hand are "teach you CS theory"; learning to interview well is up to the student and the specific school's offering of interview training. I think there's a strong argument…

> I think there's a strong argument to make that university programs are too focused on theory What would you see dropped and replaced?

Dropped: I don't know.

Replaced: At least one class where they have to deal with a decade-old million-line-plus code base, and get to experience first-hand the consequences of decisions that seemed like a good idea (or "the right way to do it") when the code was written. Nothing punctures "too much theory" like a hard dose of the real world.

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#343

Post by diafygi »

velodrome wrote: post #277
brudgers wrote: post #184

There are several factors that don't enter this analysis. 1. Bootcamps can be selective over a range of non-academic criteria such as interview skills, personal hygene, and prior work experience. Or to put it another way, unlike a public university, a boot camp can select for culture fit both in its internal cohorts and in the workplaces it targets. 2. Bootcamps tend to attract people with previous work experience: s…

How are bootcamps any different than vocational schools?

Are there vocational schools that offer good programming programs. We were trying to find community colleges in the bay area that had good programming programs where we could post jobs, but didn't really find much.

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#344

Post by serge2k »

jhchen wrote: post #121

It was not long ago that Computer Science degrees itself faced a similar challenge, against more well-rounded liberal arts programs, championed and prided by the Ivy Leagues. Today MIT and Stanford are ahead by the strength of their more “practical” engineering degrees. The data from Triplebyte supports the same narrative, just in greater granularity: businesses value practical skills. There is value in being balance…

If people won't do the 4 year engineering degree why would they do a 2 year vocational program instead?

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#345

Post by m0ngr31 »

egonschiele wrote: post #155

Hey, I wrote an algorithms book aimed at bootcampers! The epub is out today, print book to follow: http://amzn.com/1617292230 I'm hoping this will be an easy to read algorithms book for bootcamp grads. Here's a sample chapter for anyone interested: https://manning-content.s3.amazonaws.com/download/f/a75f93d-...

I bought the book on Amazon, is there a way to get the .epub before it ships?

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#346

Post by andreasklinger »

AlldenKope wrote: post #335

Companies focus too much on attracting talent, not enough on developing it. If both of these screened avenues of entry to software development are as promising as these metrics indicate (each with their pros and cons) here are some potential larger takeaways for companies: 1) Invest in the continuous development of your employees, regardless of their background and seniority 2) Hire for teams, and diversify teams wit…

I agree in all points.

How i usually justify this (anti)pattern in hiring for myself:

For startups it's hard to think/plan/project further ahead than they are old. Especially if you are measured by short term impact vs spending or long term planning.

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#347

Post by andkenneth »

badminton1 wrote: post #218
brudgers wrote: post #184

There are several factors that don't enter this analysis. 1. Bootcamps can be selective over a range of non-academic criteria such as interview skills, personal hygene, and prior work experience. Or to put it another way, unlike a public university, a boot camp can select for culture fit both in its internal cohorts and in the workplaces it targets. 2. Bootcamps tend to attract people with previous work experience: s…

Yes. Also some featured students are college students. College and bootcamps are not mutually exclusive.

I'm even considering a bootcamp after graduating university for the reasons that this article points out. I feel woefully inadequate when it comes to practical programming skills.

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#348

Post by losteric »

beamatronic wrote: post #317
syngrog66 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first read your comment I thought you meant the language C. My reaction was, "Well we would likely reduce the rate at which security vulnerabilities are introduced in new code." Then I reread it. :-) (And I criticize C with love. I used it for years and recognize it as a product of its original purpose.)

C offers you all the power of assembly language with all the ease-of-use of assembly language.

No way, C is hard to use but it's WAY easier than writing x86 assembly.

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#349

Post by tikhonj »

brudgers wrote: post #184

There are several factors that don't enter this analysis. 1. Bootcamps can be selective over a range of non-academic criteria such as interview skills, personal hygene, and prior work experience. Or to put it another way, unlike a public university, a boot camp can select for culture fit both in its internal cohorts and in the workplaces it targets. 2. Bootcamps tend to attract people with previous work experience: s…

Any university that does "holistic admissions" is selecting for cultural fit to a lesser or (often) greater extent. This includes "flagship" public schools like Berkeley and UCLA. Other public schools have to admit some number of students based on objective measures (ie top 10% of their high school class), but "holistic" factors still pop up for the rest of their students.

Re: Bootcamps vs. College

#350

Post by aczerepinski »

brudgers wrote: post #184

There are several factors that don't enter this analysis. 1. Bootcamps can be selective over a range of non-academic criteria such as interview skills, personal hygene, and prior work experience. Or to put it another way, unlike a public university, a boot camp can select for culture fit both in its internal cohorts and in the workplaces it targets. 2. Bootcamps tend to attract people with previous work experience: s…

I have a different perspective on point 5. One of the things that attracted me to Flatiron School was their audited jobs placement report. Very detailed statistics about how many students graduate, how long it takes them to find jobs, and how much they earn. I've never seen traditional colleges hold themselves to that standard of disclosure.

I think there are a couple reasons bootcamps are especially successful compared to colleges. At the top of the list is that most bootcamp students already have one or more college degrees. This is "in addition to," not "instead of." Secondly, because the schools are non-accredited, nobody does them just to please their family or because they don't know what else to do with their life. I'm sure there are anecdotal exceptions, but students are generally there because they want to be.

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