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Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

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Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#341

Post by logfromblammo »

pigpaws wrote: post #143
_clhx wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An interview can be positive and not lead to a job. I went on a lot of interviews (maybe close to 100) before starting my own business, and I'd say at least 9/10 of them were very positive. By positive: I felt we both left the interview a bit happier than we went in. We both had a legitimate good time, and enjoyed it. It wasn't a grind, both people got to know each other. I'd say I had a 10% offer rate. The most comm…

2 hours? wow. and you stayed?

I once showed up to an interview only to discover that the people who were supposed to interview me had traveled to another state. This was only after I had taken time off work and been escorted from the military base security gate to the ramshackle, unmarked building that did not in any way resemble a clean and healthy workplace.

Someone eventually called me to reschedule, and it took every last ounce of my willpower not to perform a verbal auxiliary anus installation over the phone.

To name names and shame the shameful, it was SAIC (before they split into SAIC and Leidos).

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#342

Post by yes_or_gnome »

zappo2938 wrote: post #178

"Write a maze solving algorithm" I just solved that in less than 3 seconds. Here is the solution in a Fiddle[0] and the discussion on Stack Exchange.[1]Sorry, I'm too busy solving problems which haven't been solved yet to bother with problems that have been solved. [0]: http://jsfiddle.net/5g7se8qL/7/ [1]: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16173259/javascript-maze-...

The simplest algorithm for solving a maze is to pick between 'left' or 'right'; I'll pick 'left'. Then the algorithm is: Whenever you are presented with a choice on which direction to go, then follow the 'left' wall. In the worst case, you'll hit every square and there will be a lot of retracing, but it'll get the job done. It's the equivalent of bubble sort for solving mazes.

(My apologies, to zappo2938, I didn't dive into your code, though I did skim it. I didn't want to create a new top-level comment about the maze problem.)

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#343

Post by adultSwim »

tachion wrote: post #170

After reading author's post I've a feeling that its not the programming skills that the author has issues with, but instead the attitude, stress durability, expectations to the world around him. True, hiring can be broken, it often is, but as with everything, the persistence usually allows us to find the proper company with proper hiring process. He's getting frustrated pretty quickly, complains when is asked to perf…

I understand some of the authors sentiments. Still, they come off as entitled.

Perhaps OP should try avoiding recruiters and big sexy firms.

They report having a positive interview experience but were disappointed for being passed over.

"How is this possible — I have received emails from people all over the world, who praise and give me thanks for the work I’ve done on my open-source projects and tutorials (#humblebrag)"

Perhaps there was simply another qualified candidate? OP could use a little actual humility.

I do understand OPs point that the interview process can feel disconnected from the actual work. However writing software is only part of being a software engineer. Communication / working with others is also important. This is where attitude fits in. Being a professional isn't just about wearing the right clothes/etc.

Don't mean to beat up on the OP. Perhaps they would be a great employee and are feeling a little discouraged. Still, seems like all the praise for developers (e.g. being solicited by recruiters) has gone to their head.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#344

Post by markbnj »

csixty4 wrote: post #324
markbnj wrote: post #273

There's selectivity, and there's courtesy and respect. Companies are entitled to be as selective as they like, and if those are the kinds of tests that yield the people they want to hire then good for them. On the other hand courtesy and respect would demand that you're clear with the candidate about your expectations and requirements, that you don't waste their time, that you respect the investment of time by commun…

Is your wife re-certified every year or two? Does she have to have a certain number of continuing education hours every year? I don't doubt for a minute that there's some kind of alpha geek thing going on with a lot of interviews. But it's also a reflection of the fact we don't have a widely-accepted accreditation body that can vouch for people.

Yes as I mentioned in a reply above these are very good points, but there is a significant difference of context, don't you think? Certification and licensing of medical personnel came about over many years because of the very great harm that could be done by those pretending to know what they were doing. What is at risk for most companies in hiring a programmer is more along the lines of a few hours of interview time, and the few weeks of ramp-up that might have been wasted. If an unqualified person can get in, go undetected, and do real harm to the company and its business then that is a failure of a different sort, imo.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#345

Post by TYPE_FASTER »

csixty4 wrote: post #324
markbnj wrote: post #273

There's selectivity, and there's courtesy and respect. Companies are entitled to be as selective as they like, and if those are the kinds of tests that yield the people they want to hire then good for them. On the other hand courtesy and respect would demand that you're clear with the candidate about your expectations and requirements, that you don't waste their time, that you respect the investment of time by commun…

Is your wife re-certified every year or two? Does she have to have a certain number of continuing education hours every year? I don't doubt for a minute that there's some kind of alpha geek thing going on with a lot of interviews. But it's also a reflection of the fact we don't have a widely-accepted accreditation body that can vouch for people.

> Is your wife re-certified every year or two?

License requirements are by state, but yes, there is a licensing process.

> Does she have to have a certain number of continuing education hours every year?

It depends on the state, but yes, some states require a minimum number of hours of education to renew a license.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#346

Post by Apocryphon »

emerongi wrote: post #30
sagichmal wrote: post #11

Hiring isn't broken, dude. You just don't interview well, and you seem antagonistic even to the idea that your cachet and skills, insofar as they exist, aren't useful to the market. That's a problem -- for you. Interviews exist because employers need a way to quantify and qualify your ability. Typical computer science problems are a (flawed, but concrete) way of doing that. No reasonable interviewer expects you to re…

I don't think many software engineers deal with "computer science problems" in their everyday jobs. GitHub stars are worth much more IMO. It shows that other developers value your work. That says a lot. In the end, we have to realize that most developers are just average. Why go through the ridiculous process of finding average developers who by luck (or some homework) happen to solve the problems you throw at them p…

Are GitHub star-bots the future?

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#347

Post by p4wnc6 »

unoti wrote: post #162
emerongi wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think many software engineers deal with "computer science problems" in their everyday jobs. GitHub stars are worth much more IMO. It shows that other developers value your work. That says a lot. In the end, we have to realize that most developers are just average. Why go through the ridiculous process of finding average developers who by luck (or some homework) happen to solve the problems you throw at them p…

> Why go through the ridiculous process of finding average developers who by luck (or some homework) happen to solve the problems you throw at them perfectly? Never underestimate the value of hard work, preparation, and a can-do attitude. It eclipses natural talent every time.

The hardest workers with the most successful can-do attitudes will simply reject your company if you ask them to do bullshit like algorithm trivia or HackerRank tests.

Such trivia is the opposite of useful hard work; preparation for it truly wastes time that could be better spent on other things; a can-do attitude would imply rejecting or ignoring requests to do such things.

As a result, the people who actually do take the time to complete it will not be completing it because of a good attitude or work ethic, yet you will mistakenly believe they are.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#348

Post by ionforce »

reitoei wrote: post #230
bpchaps wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If interviews weren't scheduled at the drop of a hat and employers actually took the time to decide whether to bring someone in for an onsite interview, then this wouldn't be a problem as big as it is. Fact is, when someone needs to take a day off of work, or to do schedule gymnastics for every one of their interviews of course your attitude's going to get screwed up in the process. It's exhausting, often humiliating…

Flew to Ireland from the UK for a interview (at my own expense). Did a decent interview, never got a call/email back. People can be assholes.

But paying out of pocket and commuting, wasn't that your decision to put yourself into that scenario? It's immediately (and clearly) lop-sided.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#349

Post by notliketherest »

tehwebguy wrote: post #330
notliketherest wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't reply to your other comment but I worked there several years ago. Am I brilliant? No. Did I study my ass off and understand the company's hiring practice in and out BECAUSE I WANTED A JOB THERE? absolutely. I didn't go in with some attitude like this guy in the article and resign myself to failure because of preconceived notions.

You are explaining the problem exactly! Author spends their time building software; Hired Google employee spent their time studying to win the interview game.

You realize that "winning the interview game" consists of what's called "practicing"? Do you expect to succeed in life by winging it? I'm really taken aback by how many people think they're entitled to passing job interviews without preparing for them.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#350

Post by vonmoltke »

rayiner wrote: post #44

I don't think the specific interview questions are all that y fair. BFS, shortest path, etc, are building blocks of computer science and familiarity with them is a good signal someone has a thorough education in algorithms. If you're hiring an engineer and he's not familiar with the Bernoulli equation, or a lawyer who isn't familiar with Marbury v. Madison, that'd give you pause too. The real issue is why is a front…

> If you're hiring an engineer and he's not familiar with the Bernoulli equation

What discipline are you hiring, and what do you define as "familiar with"? If I am hiring an electrical engineer, I expect them all to know what Maxwell's equations are and what they represent. I would only expect an analog, mixed-signal, or power systems engineer to know how to apply them. Even then I would expect them to look up the equations.

Engineering has been standing on a foundation of reference books for as long as the discipline has existed. Engineers are expected to know what the principles are and how to apply them. They aren't expected to do all this from memory. The PE exam is a mostly open book test for that reason.

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