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On asking job candidates to code

philcalcado.com

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Re: On asking job candidates to code

#341

Post by desireco42 »

eternalban wrote: post #306
Tunabrain wrote: post #9

> As brain-dead as I was after eight hours at my project, [..] Is giving out an 8+ hour programming project as part of the application process really considered good hiring practice? If you apply to five jobs, you're expected to spend an entire unpaid work week writing code that doesn't benefit anyone? If a company receives 20 applicants, their ideal candidate selection wastes a collective work month? I don't really…

> I don't really understand this ideal. It seems pretty simple to me, if you consider the entire protocol as what it is: a negotiation, with one side asserting their dominant position. Please excuse me hn for beating this horse to death, but for God's sake, Programmers of the World, Organize .

True! Word.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#342

Post by bdavisx »

logfromblammo wrote: post #267
emodendroket wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reneging on paying for interview expenses is the most scummy thing that companies regularly try to get away with (well, OK, no it isn't, but in this industry it is, mostly).

That's exactly why I tattle on this particular company--Tyler Tech, in Lakewood--at every available opportunity. (In the U.S., truth is sufficient defense against defamation.) They also had me drive my own car from Madison to Milwaukee, to catch a flight that actually stopped in Madison after the first leg , just so they could save a few bucks on the airfare. And then they refused to pay for the mileage between Madis…

If you haven't already, you should make sure to write that experience up on Glassdoor as well.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#343

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Lawtonfogle wrote: post #340
jasode wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>For some candidates, this will involve more than 16 hours on planes, a (minimally) overnight stay in a business hotel, and six solid hours of interviews in the course of an 8~10 hour day. This requires minimally 2~3 days of these candidates' lives. ... To put it mildly: it is not guaranteed that if you're flown out you will get an offer. ..., and you replace the onsite with even an excessively long project, that's a…

>Sure, they also interview older middle-aged candidates but the benchmark tolerance for hoop-jumping is set by the 22-year olds therefore you won't get sympathy from employers about disrupting your life to stay in the running. So basically they find a legal way to discriminate against older candidates?

Any process will fit some candidates better than others.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#344

Post by tostitos1979 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #332
tostitos1979 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I for one have "walked out" of any interview that has asked me to do a take home assignment. Usually, the request for the take-home comes early enough. This shows me that the engineering team is too busy with work to even give time for a 30 minute shared text editor code interview. If we all refuse to do it, this crap will stop.

I balked at a take-home. They agreed it was a nuisance, instead hired me for a week to work with their team as a contractor ! At my rack rate. That was a great experience, didn't hit me in the pocketbook, and convinced the team we could work productively together.

This is a good idea. Doesn't work for people on visas but I can imagine working this out somehow. Basically, make the potential employer realize that your time isn't free.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#345

Post by SilasX »

kafkaesq wrote: post #329
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its all too common. Probably for the usual reason - it works so well. Many candidates from a 'good school' have been filtered for ability, so essentially come with an endorsement. Those from other schools don't have that endorsement. They may be equally capable, but then again they may not. In fact, often not. So, discrimination is rampant because it works so well. Its not fair, possibly not legal, but hard to stamp…

They have a perfect right to use educational background as a filter. But that's not the issue here. If that's the filter they want to use -- the time to apply it is before inviting the candidate to take 3 days out of his/her life to fly across the country for an interview. If it's such a huge "ding" for them that a candidate doesn't come from a certain set of preferred schools -- fine, don't invite them for an interv…

This x1000. Well said. I've gone through the same thing: at one place, for the third(!) onsite, I got to talk to the CEO, who said, "Well why the heck should I hire you, given that [part of history]?!" -- something that had been discussed with each interviewer over the previous two rounds. I wanted to find a diplomatic way to say, "I don't know if you're just probing my ability to sell myself, but if not, and this was such a dealbreaker for you, it might have been a good idea to resolve that before taking me through three onsites, you know?"

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#346

Post by JoeAltmaier »

SilasX wrote: post #345
kafkaesq wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a perfect right to use educational background as a filter. But that's not the issue here. If that's the filter they want to use -- the time to apply it is before inviting the candidate to take 3 days out of his/her life to fly across the country for an interview. If it's such a huge "ding" for them that a candidate doesn't come from a certain set of preferred schools -- fine, don't invite them for an interv…

This x1000. Well said. I've gone through the same thing: at one place, for the third(!) onsite, I got to talk to the CEO, who said, "Well why the heck should I hire you, given that [part of history]?!" -- something that had been discussed with each interviewer over the previous two rounds. I wanted to find a diplomatic way to say, "I don't know if you're just probing my ability to sell myself, but if not, and this wa…

I'm guessing the hiring team and the CEO disagreed on that [part of history] point. Sometimes you're just a pawn in a bigger game.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#347

Post by santaclaus »

spike021 wrote: post #310
w8rbt wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious. What schools are on the list? Would a CS degree from Georgia Tech do? Also curious about VT and NC State. I think all three of those are 'good technical schools'.

Here is the screenshot I took at the time: http://i.imgur.com/FXEHuhc.png

That list is super weird, it isn't even a copy and paste of the top 20 schools. No Cal Tech grads allowed at Airbnb!

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#348

Post by stevepaulo »

spike021 wrote: post #310
w8rbt wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious. What schools are on the list? Would a CS degree from Georgia Tech do? Also curious about VT and NC State. I think all three of those are 'good technical schools'.

Here is the screenshot I took at the time: http://i.imgur.com/FXEHuhc.png

How is CalTech not on that list? It's a conceptually-silly list to begin with, the least it could be is relatively complete.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#349

Post by dang »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #320
dang wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is not a place for discussing personal details about somebody, like how they look. Moreover, that weird "but" makes this comment read like an attack. Please don't post anything like this again. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11290180 and marked it off-topic.

Sorry, wasn't meant to be an attack, just noticed that almost every startup about page and video makes it clear that grey hair is not welcome, even at exec team level. Can't delete now.

Ok, but singling out a single company, let alone a specific person, isn't the direction to go. Think of HN threads like a Markov chain: each thing you add biases what others add next. A comment like the one you posted leads to an ugly place.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#350

Post by jlarocco »

Tunabrain wrote: post #9

> As brain-dead as I was after eight hours at my project, [..] Is giving out an 8+ hour programming project as part of the application process really considered good hiring practice? If you apply to five jobs, you're expected to spend an entire unpaid work week writing code that doesn't benefit anyone? If a company receives 20 applicants, their ideal candidate selection wastes a collective work month? I don't really…

IMO the upper limit should be a couple hours, but I'm not sure that should be communicated to the people interviewing because it can stress people out.

> What's the point of maintaining an online portfolio and a github profile full of code if companies prefer to waste your time writing a pointless uploader?

There are a few problems with using GitHub or BitBucket profiles. First, not everybody has them, or they don't update them frequently, or whatever. Second, it's pretty easy to fake a GitHub profile by copy/pasting code from other places, using other people's code, or pushing broken stuff that doesn't really work. And third, a lot of people's GitHub profiles are cluttered up with a bunch of forked repos that they haven't even pushed code to and don't really contribute to at all.

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