GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart • Hacker News Board

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#341

Post by seivan » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

slavik81 wrote: post #300

Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always been profoundly confused by people/groups who choose to fight racism with racism. I'm not quite sure that's the best corrective path for this problem. But everyone lets it slide, at least here in the US. Are we just scared?

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster." It's an inherent problem that as you fight something, you tend to mirror it. You almost have to do so in order to be effective. The problem is that at some point, it just feeds the cycle.

God damn, that is painfully true to the point of nausea.

I am at fault for that, and have been trying to stop recently.

It's funny how we (I) is okay with using old wisdom when it comes to engineering, but dismiss quotes like that even though it comes with significant experience across generation and culture. Chalk it up to young and (incredibly) stupid

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#342

Post by fapjacks » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

I guess I will say the thing that is hard to talk about, but I must:

What does Nicole Sanchez know? Everybody knows Hispanics are too lazy to achieve anything great.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#343

Post by hartpuff » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

honestcoyote wrote: post #289

vidarh wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a white middle-aged male, Tumblr is the only place I've experienced what it is like to be on the receiving end of racism. It's quite fascinating to see just how vile some of it gets. Of course it is only fascinating to me because I can trivially withdraw from it and not be particularly affected.

My point about Tumblr is that it's a huge site containing a lot of blogs. Seems like half (or over half) is porn. Most of the other half seems dedicated to rabid fanbases of various bits of pop culture. There's some politics like everywhere else on the net, but I have no idea why so many people here, including my downvoters, think it's this despicable bastion of frothy far leftism when that's only a small part of it.…

> I have no idea why so many people here, including my downvoters, think it's this despicable bastion of frothy far leftism when that's only a small part of it.

I have no idea how you know what your downvoters think about Tumblr.

> It's like saying Reddit is nothing but Red Pill / MRA / gamergate types [...] I really hate lazy stereotypes

Who is the "they" in your post then, below, if not a generalised "Reddit" of nothing but Red Pill / MRA / gamergate types?

     "Reddit is leaking. Tumblr: the scapegoat for everything they don't like."

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#344

Post by malandrew » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

brighteyes wrote: post #277

mjbh7k wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- "This is not work for white folks to lead" Well, it's not. It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people. - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" Second wave feminism, largely led by white women, often leaves out women of color. I mentioned this below, but the publishing industry is 79% white and 78% female. This has a huge impact on the types of stori…

> - "This is not work for white folks to lead" > Well, it's not. It's kind of missing the point if your diversity initiative is being run by white people. On the one hand, sure, it would be odd if it were entirely led by a group of people that the initiative is not meant to directly benefit. But on the other, 1. The title implies it is white people that must be left out of leadership there. It does not mention Asian…

    Asian people are highly overrepresented, much more than 
    white people, relative to their percentage in the country.

But not relative to California. This is important to note because the base rates of the state in which a company is located or an industry is concentrated matter. Very very few people move farther than 500 miles from the place where they are born. This means that the overwhelming majority of the people in this country would never take a job in California.

That said, I believe Asian people are overrepresented, more than white people, relative to their percentage in California, but it's not nearly as disproportionate as the figures relative to the entire country.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#345

Post by verylongaccount » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

It seems that a large number of posters believe that discriminating against white men is okay because they enjoy "white privilege", whatever that is. Either you believe it is okay to discriminate against someone on the basis of their skin color or you don't. Attempts to redefine the word notwithstanding, those who subscribe to the former philosophy are known as racists.

It is hard to distinguish the anti-white vitriol I see on this page from the antisemitism of yesteryear. It was often said that Jews were over-represented in various occupations not because their industriousness, intelligence or other virtues, but because of devious trickery (they plot together to deprive others of opportunities). I fail to see how the arguments regarding white men are any different.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#346

Post by bendykstra » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

warfangle wrote: post #323

toufka wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually written into GitHub's Open Code of conduct. (The 'Open' Code has not accepted any changes for quite some time even though this particular issue was under discussion [1].) The Open Code expressly excuses discrimination against some races and genders, specifically by explicitly ignoring any critique which might fall under a 'reverse'-ism; 'reverse-racism' or 'reverse-sexism' [2]. This line in the Open Cod…

Reverse racism is a myth.

Do you mean that it does not exist or that it cannot exist? I've heard this exact phrase before, "reverse racism is a myth," and it seems like an example of a thought-terminating cliché.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#347

Post by eghad » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #130

hitekker wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me sad. I thought you were being over the top about the racism but then I saw the slides in the article: http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2462e526543008... My first reaction is that the language of "us" vs "them", victims vs oppressors, reeks of hatred. Hatred undermines productive conversation, which undermines any attempt at building a good culture. I would have to listen to the whole presen…

I don't know if you even need to see the whole presentation. A few of the full sentences on that one slide are more than enough to project a strong us vs them attitude of hatred and victim versus oppressor, especially the following bullets: - "This is not work for white folks to lead" - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - "we need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" This is blat…

Perhaps you should actually take some time and read the article? This was given at a presentation not aligned with Github (so this isn't an official policy as you and others are making it out as). Further, its context is obviously needed to limit all of this specious extrapolation on how this is a contribution to the current shifts at Github; I'm impressed so many have been so easily taken in by this blogspam.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#348

Post by eghad » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #130

hitekker wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me sad. I thought you were being over the top about the racism but then I saw the slides in the article: http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/56b3d2462e526543008... My first reaction is that the language of "us" vs "them", victims vs oppressors, reeks of hatred. Hatred undermines productive conversation, which undermines any attempt at building a good culture. I would have to listen to the whole presen…

I don't know if you even need to see the whole presentation. A few of the full sentences on that one slide are more than enough to project a strong us vs them attitude of hatred and victim versus oppressor, especially the following bullets: - "This is not work for white folks to lead" - "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - "we need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" This is blat…

Perhaps you should actually take some time and read the article? This was given at a presentation not aligned with Github (so this isn't an official policy as you and others are making it out as). Further, its context is obviously needed to prevent all of this specious extrapolation on how this is a contribution to the current shifts at Github; I'm impressed so many have been so easily taken in by this blogspam.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#349

Post by IanDrake » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #116

iza wrote: post #15

> "We’re trying to build a new kind of enterprise company where the playbooks of old won’t always work" By replacing flat meritocracy and remote work with traditional top-down management? > "don't think we'll succeed teaching white, male middle managers empathy and compassion anytime soon, so let's limit their scope of damage" So the technical director and member of the social-impact team is a blatant racist.

I freely agree that there is a lack of diversity in tech, and that we have to bear some of tbe blame ourselves, but this sort of approach is not helping.

>and that we have to bear some of tbe blame ourselves

I assume you're speaking for yourself. I will bear none of that with you. Never have I participated in any way to hold down anyone because of their race, gender, or otherwise.

When the blameless volunteer to take blame we have serious social problems. Better find the actual cause and fix it.

Re: GitHub is undergoing a full-blown overhaul as execs and employees depart

#350

Post by eikenberry » Sat, Feb 06, 2016, 9:51 PM UTC

facepalm wrote: post #275

eikenberry wrote: post #211

I love how the guy quoted saying that they can't teach white, male middle managers empathy is a white male middle manager. I guess he's saying that he's proud of what he is.

He could be a Latino, profile says he is from Puerto Rico.

Possibly. Though Latino's range from standard white European (usually Spanish or Danish decent) to near full blooded Indian. So it is hard to use it as a differentiating category.