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Apple’s declining software quality

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Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#341

Post by natch »

MicroBerto wrote: post #108

The sentiment in this thread rings true to me. Usually the techies (ie HN readers/commenters) are ahead of the curve, so it will only be so much time before the cries from the general populace become louder. Meanwhile, last time I was on an airplane (December), every single older woman over the age of 60 had an iPhone . This means that it's not only reached critical mass (the late majority on the technology adoption…

I wouldn't discount all the people who don't give a shit about being hip, but just want their devices to be safe and kick ass.

Apple haters seem to often have the misconception that people like Apple products for their style appeal. It's easy to think that, and not wonder if there are possibly some more important reasons.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#342

Post by chei0aiV »

xeromal wrote: post #105
jonknee wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of awful software shipped under Steve Jobs. X Code has always been a buggy mess, iTunes bloated greatly under Steve (remember Ping?), iMovie '08, etc etc.

Totally forgot about Ping. I love being reminded of old "features".

Its funny watching the announcements of these products now.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#343

Post by cableshaft »

koralatov wrote: post #19
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #7

While I agree that Apple's software quality has declined in recent years, I fear that their hardware and other advantages (even with superior hardware and software I don't trust a Google-or-Amazon-based phone for a second to be anything but a data mine for them), I fear Apple's existing lead in general quality will allow them to become (remain?) complacent and allow things to slide.

I agree with your concerns about a Google or Amazon phone being a datamine in your pocket, but I think that, for most people, it's not an issue: they simply want a phone that works for them and don't give much thought to how much information about them is being squirrelled away. A huge factor in Apple's sliding software quality is lock-in: once you're on iOS using an iPhone, it's so much easier to simply stay on iOS…

I'm happy going Apple with my tablet and Android for my phone (actually I changed again and went Windows Phone). So I still can access all those old games I had on my previous iPhone through my iPad, but I can enjoy new things and try out other phones and operating systems, and spend less money doing so.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#345

Post by cheald »

danso wrote: post #140
Alupis wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> iTunes was decent or even good You clearly never used iTunes for Windows.

You clearly have never read his biography ;) via an All Things D event: > What’s more, thanks to the popularity of iTunes on PCs, Apple has become a major Windows software developer. “We’ve got cards and letters from lots of people who say that iTunes is their favorite app on Windows,” noted Jobs. “It’s like giving a glass of ice water to somebody in Hell.” That quip apparently caused Bill Gates to become quite angry…

I can only conclude that the people sending such letters had only previously used GTK+ apps on Windows or something.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#346

Post by addicted »

biot wrote: post #288
addicted wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I don't think this is a Steve Jobs thing at all. In fact, I think post Steve Jobs Apple actually pays a lot more lip service to better software than they did before. I simply think the attempts to build stuff in common with iOS is taking its toll.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? If post-Jobs they only pay lip service to quality but with Jobs they actually took action, doesn't that suggest Jobs may have been a positive influence on quality?

I think the action they take is about the same. They pay more lip service these days. I wouldn't be surprised if they are actually putting more work into better quality these days, but stuff is just more complex (e.g., everything is cloud based. Imagine OSX today, except running MobileMe, .Mac, etc. as the cloud backend instead of iCloud, which while it has its issues, is way better than those disasters).

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#347

Post by cmurf »

abakker wrote: post #196
lubonay wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't upvote this enough. So many products have been ruined by feature creep, it's sad to even think about it...

Its interesting to think about - is feature creep uniquely in the domain of software? I don't think so. There is plenty of software that has been immune to it (think everyday developer tools, command line stuff, etc). Often the apps with the least amount of feature creep are the ones where they are bounded by the APIs they talk to, i.e. if the API (which they don't control) is static, they can't really add any more f…

I agree, feature creep is not unique to software. Look at cars. Creep is just made worse now that they can run software.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#348

Post by microtonal »

coldtea wrote: post #296
dplgk wrote: post #10

There's just no way in hell Steve Jobs would be putting up with this and I wish he was alive to tear some people a new one. I didn't like Jobs but respect his ability to achieve things. Perhaps, the years of oversimplifying applications has created an Apple that can't handle complex applications? Or, there's a chicken and egg question: XCode and the surrounding tools are atrociously buggy and hostile to the developer…

> There's just no way in hell Steve Jobs would be putting up with this and I wish he was alive to tear some people a new one. I didn't like Jobs but respect his ability to achieve things. You probably wasn't paying attention when Job was running things. OS X 10.1 was a mess -- it took until several updates to become somewhat usable. The Finder was half-arsed for a decade. Mail.app had several issues. The Windows vers…

That said, I don't buy the "Apple software went downhill as of late" thing. First, because as said there were always issues.

I fully agree. I jumped on the Mac and OS X bandwagon in 2007. The first few releases of Leopard (10.5) were quite hellish, because I was constantly having Wifi problems. My HP Laserjet didn't work until 10.5.2 (in 10.5.0 and 10.5.1 it would just print a few pages and get stuck). Snow Leopard was a smoother ride, but only after a couple of dot releases.

I think there was a low point around Lion and Mountain Lion (lots of new features, but they were not polished enough). But since Mavericks it's been smooth sailing for me.

People also seem to have overly romantic recollections of past Apple software. Sure, Aperture and iPhoto were killed in favor of Photos. But Aperture was crap. Version 2 was still acceptable, but 3.x had constant hangs and slowness. And they were always trailing behind badly with RAW support. As many people, I have bought Aperture 2 & 3 and switch to LightRoom pretty soon after because of Aperture's lack of polish. A while ago I tried the new Photos. And although it does not have all of Aperture's features, it's a far better application in terms of speed and user experience.

tl;dr: I don't see this drop in quality.

Of course, App Store and iTunes need to be burned down to the ground and rewritten from scratch.

Re: Apple’s declining software quality

#350

Post by arc0re »

arprocter wrote: post #325
diogenescynic wrote: post #179

The UI and UX has also become much less intuitive and more complex. iTunes used to be very easy to use. Every few updates and they are constantly making you relearn where to find things which is annoying. The same thing is happening to the Music app on iOS. It's not nearly as good as the original iPod software. They've added features that don't improve the experience at all.

The 'maximize' button now making a window take over your whole screen being one of the oddest. And disappearing scroll bars - why?! Didn't this company write the HIG book?

you can force the scroll bars to be always visible. Look in your general settings
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