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The Software Revolution

blog.samaltman.com

331–340 of 397 posts

Re: The Software Revolution

#331
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can't take any random adult and teach him how to code. Yes, but that's because the art of application programming is (mostly) stuck in the "alchemy" era of science. There is precious little systemization of knowledge, processes, and names. All of these frameworks are actually memes competing for mind-share to be an answer to this need. Of course, having one periodic table for software would be better than having…

But it seems unlikely that reducing the complexity will lead to more jobs, just better software at automating the task of making software so fewer people are needed to complete the job.

[deleted]

Re: The Software Revolution

#332
post #290

There are so many things wrong with this essay -- it combines a Marxist-inspired call for redistribution of wealth in the name of egalitarianism (are there specific individuals who will control how much we are allowed to own?), fear of change in what people do for a living (are people too exploited and too stupid to adapt?), and fear of technological progress in private hands (does the State, or some other supra-coll…

We already have massive (forced) redistribution of wealth in the form of corporate welfare. Tariffs, patents, copyrights, land grants, competition-prohibiting regulation, direct subsidies, indirect subsidization of capital inputs via compulsory state education, roads, communication infrastructure, etc, etc, etc.

I fully agree with you that government intervention hinders technological progress, derails economic progress, and ultimately destroys the economy. The concentration of wealth through political rather than economic means is a huge problem.

But, saying you want to cut welfare to the poor is what I would call vulgar libertarianism, and ineffective anti-state propaganda. The poor and middle classes are already getting royally screwed. Ameliorating the disastrous effects that corporate privilege has on the poor isn't where we should be directing our righteous indignation, in my opinion.

I think it'd be more constructive to focus on cutting welfare from the top down, and cutting taxes from the bottom up.

Re: The Software Revolution

#333
> The previous one, the industrial revolution, created lots of jobs because the new technology required huge numbers of humans to run it.

This doesn't really make sense. The industrial revolution more or less replaced lots of relatively unproductive jobs with a smaller amount of much more productive jobs. There might have been more work, but individual people were doing more work as well.

> Technology provides leverage on ability and luck, and in the process concentrates wealth and drives inequality. I think that drastic wealth inequality is likely to be one of the biggest social problems of the next 20 years.

Wealth inequality is already a huge problem, and has been for a long time. I don't see how it's going to be worse in the next 20 years, given in a lot of countries (China, India, etc.) we're seeing wealth flow to, or be created by, a growing middle class. A lot of the 'Occupy' movement was somewhat misguided - the percentage of people in the United States or Australia or the UK who are in the 1% worldwide is perhaps as high as 20% or 30%.

Software, rather than hindering, may very well help people in rapidly developing nations generate wealth because the economic barrier to entry for software businesses is comparatively low compared to other types of businesses.

I'm also a little concerned that it seems as though many people believe wealth redistribution is the only way to make it more equal. Why can't we create wealth in some places? As far as I understand, wealth is not finite.

Once we get to the point of widespread AI-driven automation, then we'll have a real economic problem. It won't be just because people can't generate wealth - people may very well begin to lose wealth. But this is a 50-year problem, not a 20-year one.

Re: The Software Revolution

#334
So, we're talking about the rich people.

Okay, let's get some ballpark arithmetic: Suppose the 1000 richest people in the US are worth on average $1 billion, that the US has 330 million people, and that we redistribute the worth of those 1000 people to the 300 million. Then each of the 300 million will have money enough for a nice new car, four years in college or graduate school, to pay off their student loans, make a down payment on a single family, three bedroom, two bath house on a nice street, and won't have to struggle with a miserable job? Will they? Maybe? Let's see:

1000 * 109 / ( 330 * 106 ) = 3,030.30

dollars per person. Oh, well.

But, maybe in the US the top 100,000 people have average worth of $1 billion? Then, sure, we'd get

100,000 * 109 / (330 * 106) = 303,030.30

dollars per person.

Ah, that's more like it! We just need a lot more billionaires!

I would suggest that maybe by far the biggest pot of wealth is in pension funds for middle class workers.

Re: The Software Revolution

#335
For the computer part of Sam's essay, I'd suggest that we are a long way from artificial intelligence (AI) software being significantly more economically valuable than what we've been writing for decades -- various cases of applied math, applied science, engineering, and business record keeping.

To support this claim, once I was in an AI group at the IBM Watson lab in Yorktown Heights, NY. We published a stack of papers; I was one of three of us that gave a paper at an AAAI IAAI conference at Stanford. My view of the good papers at that conference was that they were just good computer-aided problem solving as in applied math, applied science, and engineering and owed essentially nothing to AI. Later I took one of our major problems we were trying to solve with AI, stirred up some new stuff in mathematical statistics, got a much better solution (and did publish the paper in Information Sciences). That experience and observation since is the support for my claim. Sure, this support is just my opinion, and YMMV.

Instead of AI with a lot of economic value, I would suggest that closer in is a scenario of people managing computers managing computers ... managing computers doing the work.

And what work will those computers do? Sure, first cut, the usual -- food, clothing, shelter, transportation, education, medical care.

So, maybe John Deere will have a worker computer on a tractor doing the spring plowing, the summer cultivating, and the fall harvesting. Then food can get cheaper. Maybe before the plowing a tractor will traverse the ground, take an analyze soil samples for each, say, square yard, and apply appropriate chemicals.

Maybe GM will have car factories with robots driven by computers doing essentially all the work. Then cars can get cheaper.

Maybe Weyerhaeuser or Toll Brothers will have pre-fab house factories with robots driven by computers doing essentially all the work, self-driving trucks delivering the big boxes, computer driven earth movers doing the site preparation, computer driven robots putting up the forms for the concrete basement walls, computer driven concrete pumpers inserting the concrete from self-driving concrete trucks, and houses will get a lot cheaper.

And the computers get cheaper.

So, right, we're talking deflation. So, have the government print some money and spend it on K-12 and college education, guaranteed annual income, parks, beautiful highways, etc. Print enough money to reverse the deflation and hire a lot of people. Those people buy the cheap food, cars, and houses, have children, and fill the classrooms of the additional education.

What education? Sure: How the heck to develop all those robots, managing computers, worker computers, computer driven farm machinery, car factories, pre-fab house factories, etc.

Or, as computers eliminate jobs, basically the result is deflation, and that's the easiest thing in the world to stop, and the solution is the nicest thing in the world -- just print money to get us out of deflation.

We already know what people want from the famous one word answer "More".

Computers should be a blessing, not a curse.

Re: The Software Revolution

#336
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the wheel, that was revolutionary.

And spoken language, and writing, and masonry, and metalcasting, and cultivation, and domestication, scientific theory, logical thought, etc. A lot of things mattered a lot to get us where we are, and fundamentally changed the world when they happened (or at least changed the founders world in the short term as it spread globally).

> domestication

Huge. Cats to eat the mice that would eat the grain. Dogs to help in the hunting. Goats for milk and meat. Sheep for wool, milk, and meat. Horses for power and meat. Cows for milk and meat. Biggies.

Another biggie was open ocean sailing. Why? Because there were no toll gates on the open ocean! Across land had to pay up to the local castle each few miles. So, if got some silk in the eastern Black Sea and want to sell it in England, go across Europe? Heck no: Just get a ship and go by water. Same for spices from India for Europe, etc.

Re: The Software Revolution

#337
post #329

I disagree with this: "The previous one, the industrial revolution, created lots of jobs" That industrial revolution caused massive unemployment in India, in the Ottoman empire, in China... almost everywhere that had once been a famous textile center. The idea that the industrial revolution did not cause unemployment is an illusion that is caused by looking at only one nation state. But Britain was the winner of the…

I'm fairly convinced that eventually there will be two and only two choices: universal income and a shortened work week, or such extreme wealth divisions that stability demands a totalitarian police state resembling the worst sort of comic book cyberpunk dystopia. Age of abundance or feudal hellhole. Your pick. There simply will not be enough economically viable work to sustain any system that demands labor to mainta…

Considering that it is natural for humans to lust after power I can tell you what I think is the most likely outcome.

I think we're already seeing it form today and it's infancy doesn't detract from it's long-term danger.

Re: The Software Revolution

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And because of this, a breathtaking gap opened up between wages in the West and wages everywhere else. This was because of the West getting richer, not everyone else getting poorer. Had the 'third world' countries had the right economic structures in place they too would have gotten richer like the West, much as East Asia has caught up to the West's economic development since economic and social reforms after WW2.

This is factually incorrect, the extensive documentation of the era makes it clear that the east India company and British rule made it a point to destroy native industry, vaccum raw material, on top of introducing laws and acts which penalized you for being a particular race. All of those economic structures were destroyed and perverted by the conquerors.

Wrong. Neither China nor Russia were ever colonized yet even today they lack behind the west.

Re: The Software Revolution

#339
post #329

I disagree with this: "The previous one, the industrial revolution, created lots of jobs" That industrial revolution caused massive unemployment in India, in the Ottoman empire, in China... almost everywhere that had once been a famous textile center. The idea that the industrial revolution did not cause unemployment is an illusion that is caused by looking at only one nation state. But Britain was the winner of the…

I'm fairly convinced that eventually there will be two and only two choices: universal income and a shortened work week, or such extreme wealth divisions that stability demands a totalitarian police state resembling the worst sort of comic book cyberpunk dystopia. Age of abundance or feudal hellhole. Your pick. There simply will not be enough economically viable work to sustain any system that demands labor to mainta…

> Age of abundance or feudal hellhole.

Why not both? We certainly have all kinds of societies on earth today. What makes you think we won't have areas that are highly progressive but also areas that are extremely sadistic in the treatment of their people?

Re: The Software Revolution

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your arrogance is showing. Sure, you could learn how to operate a lathe on an assembly line in a matter of weeks; in just the same way nearly any adult of average education could learn in a matter of weeks to write WordPress templates, or cobble together SQL queries, or etc. etc. To become a master machinist, the kind who can do anything with a lathe that a lathe can be asked to do? Years of dedication and expertise.

The problem with this is that those cobbled-together SQL queries are precisely the kinds of things good programmers either replace or automate away; you can automate away an assembly-line job, but not as cheaply, and not as easily. There might not be any such thing as a 100x programmer or whatever, but the value proposition for replacing a few sub-par programmers with one better programmer and a framework is a lot cl…

Hmm, I don’t think so. If you have a dozen similar queries, then you can factor out the similarity (say, into a view, or a Ruby subroutine that generates the SQL). If you have a thousand that vary in a lot of different ways, a few subroutines isn’t enough; you need a DSL to factor out the similarity, aka “automate away” the queries.

But then you need someone to write down the idiosyncratic bits of each query, the thing that makes it different from the other thousand, in your DSL. For a lot of systems, the right DSL is in fact SQL itself, but even if it’s not, you still need people to write in it.

In short, nonprogrammers writing cobbled-together SQL queries are the result of automating away the non-idiosyncratic aspects of the queries.

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