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Plastc Card

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Re: Plastc Card

#331

Post by bduerst »

bradfa wrote: post #298
penprog wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really believe you can fit an eink display, a touch screen digitizer, a microcontroller, bluetooth and nfc on a card that thin and sell it for 155 dollars?

Yes. If the eInk screen uses the card plastic in place of the glass which usually backs such a screen, it can easily be thin enough for a credit card form factor. Touch screen digitizing can be done resistively with overlaid wires over the screen. Their touch interface doesn't have to be super accurate, you only seem to touch in a few distinct locations. A microcontroller is already inside every chip and pin card on…

Right, but it won't be credit card thin for the swipe, chip, or internalized readers. The problem isn't that the technology doesn't exist, it's that it exists in the right size format.

Even if it did somehow exist today, isn't it overkill to load this much tech onto a single card, when you can just generate one-time card numbers on the fly?

Re: Plastc Card

#332

Post by bravo22 »

abritishguy wrote: post #270
bravo22 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in defence of Chip and PIN (and I can't believe I'm saying this), the exploits listed above take advantage of "No Signature" provided. This is where the card just gives the basic CC information -- same as what is on the front. The bank can see this and banks only allow small transactions to go through with no signature. In the demo they buy coffee, etc. with it. You couldn't buy something more expensive with it…

That certainly isn't true of the Cambridge one.

From their paper: "We have observed variations between countries. While cards from Belgium and Estonia work like British cards, we have tested cards from Switzerland and Germany whose CVM lists specify either chip and signature or online PIN, at least while used abroad. The attack described here is not applicable to them. However, because UK point-of-sale terminals do not support online PIN, a stolen card of such a type could easily be used in the UK, by forging the cardholder’s signature."

Their attack uses offline PIN mode. This is further expanded upon in section III.

The simplified attack is such: Basically the PIN signed block doesn't get sent to the bank. Verification is only between the terminal and the card, and the card (or rather MITM hardware) returns a "all is well, transaction approved" message when in fact no such thing happened. The terminal doesn't go online and talk to the bank and verify the signed PIN block.

This is essentially misconfiguration of the merchant terminal that ignores the result of the PIN verification.

This is similar to when you tap a card to buy something. If the merchant system doesn't go online to verify it -- which it often doesn't for small transactions (<$10) then you can game the system.

Re: Plastc Card

#333

Post by sleepycal »

angry_dan wrote: post #325
sleepycal wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly agree. But I'll lose my commit privileges if I remove it... worth it? Maybe :P

Hey, if I had my way, everything would have been star wipe. Scroll -> star wipe to next page. Scroll -> star wipe! Scroll -> star wipe! It could have been AMAZING.

Do it. Lets throw in a too.. I'll even "git filter-branch" your commit afterwards. No one will ever know. :D

Re: Plastc Card

#334

Post by angry_dan »

sleepycal wrote: post #333
angry_dan wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, if I had my way, everything would have been star wipe. Scroll -> star wipe to next page. Scroll -> star wipe! Scroll -> star wipe! It could have been AMAZING.

Do it. Lets throw in a too.. I'll even "git filter-branch" your commit afterwards. No one will ever know. :D

Don't tempt me.

Re: Plastc Card

#335

Post by cgjaro »

bravo22 wrote: post #179
mrb wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"E-ink displays are WAY thicker than they can fit in there" No, I have in my pocket a PayPal Security Key: it is the same size and thickness and flexibility as a credit card, yet it houses an e-paper display: https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-i... They have been on the market for 5+ years, so the technology is there. Plastc has a bigger display, but there is no doubt it can fit in a credit ca…

You have a segmented e-ink display in there. They have a full pixel display. They are different. E-Ink displays are 1.18mm thick per their spec sheet and you have to add some mechanically stiff backing to that. Looking at a detailed photo [1] it looks like a STN segmented LCD but I could be wrong. Incidentally, do you have a pair of callipers handy? Could you measure the PayPal Security Key? I don't think it is the s…

I do have a PayPal Security Key. My calliper measures 0.81mm, compared to 0.78mm for credit cards. So it is indeed pretty much the same thickness.

Re: Plastc Card

#336

Post by xcrunner529 »

andor wrote: post #328
xcrunner529 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WRONG. It is part of the new EMVco standard, but has NOT been implemented anywhere but Apple Pay at this time. There was years of prep with the banks and Apple to get this initial implementation.

EMV® is a trademark dating back to 1999, and it refers to all of the specifications administered by EMVCo. The original EMV Specification (for chip-based payment instruments) is now in v4.3, with backwards-compatible EMV Next Generation Specifications in development. ( http://www.emvco.com/about_emv.aspx ) EMV and EMVco are the same thing. It's the standard also implemented by RFID cards such as Mastercard PayPass an…

The EMV tokenization standard is what you want to look up, bud.

Re: Plastc Card

#337

Post by mattmaroon »

staz wrote: post #213
mattmaroon wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of cards. Between gift cards, loyalty cards, and credit cards, I have at least 20-30 that I'd like to carry on me. I end up leaving cards I don't use every day in my car (and am always paranoid about the valet as a result). I use a KeyRing app for loyalty cards, but it's a pain and requires me often typing numbers into things. I often find myself in a Starbucks, realizing I left the Starbucks gift card i…

I don't get how you can end up with so many cards, it's seems like a very american problem. I have 5 cards in my wallet: * Debit card and a Visa credit card: both with chip&pin and allowing me to do secure transaction on the internet * A public transport card: RFC, also allow me to rent bikes * An ID card, also with a chip&pin, allow me to sign documents and fill my taxes * An insurance card which is not even a magne…

In America, almost every store has its own loyalty card. Some places (God bless 'em) just let you use your phone number but most require you to have the card. There's 10 right there, easy. Everyone shops at a couple different grocery stores, a drug store, home good store, etc. Clothing, restaurants, gym. It adds up.

Then there's your driver's license. Health insurance. Car insurance.

On top of that credit cards. You're a fool if you don't have a few different ones, because they have rotating reward categories that give you bonuses. I bet a get a few grand a year that most people don't. But even still, I only have 3. And 1 ATM card on the off chance I ever need cash.

Plus gift cards. On the one hand, you don't want to carry those on you all the time. On the other, you'd often use them impulsively so you can't just leave them at home.

It adds up quite easily. It isn't that I want to carry all those cards. It's that I get substantial rewards for doing so.

Re: Plastc Card

#338

Post by mattmaroon »

aestra wrote: post #303
baddox wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American, and I have no idea how someone ends up with that many cards. I carry two: my credit card and by debit (ATM) card. I could easily leave the latter behind, since I very rarely use, but it feels prudent to keep it with me in case I need cash in an emergency. Beyond that, I could understand having a single company credit card if it makes sense for your job (it doesn't for mine). For gift cards, I suppose…

Well I have no fewer than 4 checking accounts. I have a debit card for all them. I don't use any of the debit cards except at the ATM once in a while so I could probably go without three of them on my person. Then I have 4 credit cards.* That's 8 cards right there. Then I do my shopping at 3 different grocery stores, so they all get their cards. 3 because I take advantage of the sales at each and the selection. One d…

Everyone should have at least 3. If you aren't fully taking advantage of credit card rewards you are subsidizing people like me who do.

Re: Plastc Card

#339

Post by mattmaroon »

Vespasian wrote: post #287
crazygringo wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in your boat, BUT... You could also easily have 5 store credit cards (J. Crew, Banana Republic, etc.) for extra discounts, a few gift cards you haven't spent yet (Starbucks, Best Buy, etc.), an extra 3 credit cards (they have different promotions), a handful of loyalty cards for discounts (a couple supermarkets, three or four coffee shops, a couple of restaurants), various forms of ID and access cards (company, s…

I've never seen one of those gift cards in plastic forms. This seems indeed to be very american ;) Every gift card I ever got or bought was just a piece of paper. And my only store loyalty cards are actually from the US (although they exist here as well).

Here they are much more commonly plastic. They look like a credit card and are on display at stores. It is just a much nicer presentation for a gift than a piece of paper you printed. It's also more convenient to hang onto. It doesn't have to be folded and get beaten up in your wallet when you don't use it for 2 months.

The only time you have something printed on paper is if you got it off a credit card rewards site for the most part.

Re: Plastc Card

#340

Post by mattmaroon »

camillomiller wrote: post #269
mattmaroon wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of cards. Between gift cards, loyalty cards, and credit cards, I have at least 20-30 that I'd like to carry on me. I end up leaving cards I don't use every day in my car (and am always paranoid about the valet as a result). I use a KeyRing app for loyalty cards, but it's a pain and requires me often typing numbers into things. I often find myself in a Starbucks, realizing I left the Starbucks gift card i…

This really is something I don't get. I have a pretty busy digital and real life, and I really can't think of having more than a couple of CC (one Credit, one debt), an EC Karte and maybe a couple of cards for gym membership and (in this very moment) H&M giftcard. Even Apple Pay strikes me as a solution looking for a problem. Maybe that's a fundamental difference between the U.S. and Europe, but I really don't get th…

After reading this thread I'm starting to think European companies use plastic far less than American ones. All I can say is live here for a year and you'll understand.
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