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Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

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331–340 of 398 posts

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you draw a black box around an antenna salesman and the equipment they've installed, you also get something that appears to be a cable company.

Not if you need more than one customer to be "a cable company".

Said antenna salesman would have sold antennas to much more than one household.

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#332
post #328
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a big different between paying money all at once to buy and install hardware that I own vs paying a recurring fee for a service.

What if I paid for the antenna with a credit card, and am slowly making payments month by month? What if I rent the apartment where the antenna resides, and pay a monthly subscription for Internet?

Are either one of those you paying a recurring fee to a company for a service that streams TV to you?

No?

Then you're fine.

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if you need more than one customer to be "a cable company".

Said antenna salesman would have sold antennas to much more than one household.

But he does not continue to own the antenna, and you do not continue to pay him.

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said antenna salesman would have sold antennas to much more than one household.

But he does not continue to own the antenna, and you do not continue to pay him.

What if he rents you an antenna, but you install it in your house?

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#335
post #332
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I paid for the antenna with a credit card, and am slowly making payments month by month? What if I rent the apartment where the antenna resides, and pay a monthly subscription for Internet?

Are either one of those you paying a recurring fee to a company for a service that streams TV to you? No? Then you're fine.

The mechanism is exactly the same.

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#336
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> an ongoing service relationship with a company that both owns and operates equipment that has everything to do with content? does this mean i can pay a third party to install an anetenna in new york, but i can't pay them maintain it for me?

I reckon you wouldn't be able to have your own antenna in your New York apartment, unless you actually own the apartment. Renters are out of luck.

They're only out of luck if the owner refuses to install an antenna. But assuming that an antenna exists and that it sends connections to each apartment, then they're back in luck.

If the owner amortizes the cost of this antenna as a general building expense, and sets all the rents accordingly, there's still no problem. However, if the owner attempts to charge a separate fee for that connection (or tries to raise the rent for people who opt out of paying that fee) then he has not only inserted himself in the middle of the content transmission stream, he has done so on an individualized commercial basis. In effect, he's made himself a micro-distributer by establishing a cash for content deal with his tenants and the law has a major problem with that.

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#337
post #335
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are either one of those you paying a recurring fee to a company for a service that streams TV to you? No? Then you're fine.

The mechanism is exactly the same.

Doesn't matter. I know you don't like that but that's the way it is. Common law isn't source code running on a machine with perfectly defined rules, it's a set of values adjudicated by judges.

They looked at Aereo and said: It looks like a cable company and quacks like a cable company so it's gotta act like a cable company. The precise configuration of equipment they have in their datacenter doesn't matter.

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#338
post #337
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mechanism is exactly the same.

Doesn't matter. I know you don't like that but that's the way it is. Common law isn't source code running on a machine with perfectly defined rules, it's a set of values adjudicated by judges. They looked at Aereo and said: It looks like a cable company and quacks like a cable company so it's gotta act like a cable company. The precise configuration of equipment they have in their datacenter doesn't matter.

I'm not arguing that the law is the way I think it should be. I'm just arguing that the law is really dumb, and that it's pretty clear the legal system just makes decisions that serve the interests of powerful lobbies, rather than some intelligent or even discernible set of rules or principles.

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#339
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the person you're paying is doing the work, then it's obviously not for their personal use. It's for yours. So they're doing it for money on someone else's behalf, which throws the "personal, non-commercial use" argument straight out the window. Moving on to Dropbox. Dropbox has no involvement in the selection of the file in question, or even the type of file, and moreover, they're not the ones to place it on thei…

Your argument doesn't work for the analogy, because the viewer is simply paying someone to do the physical work required for the viewer to remotely watch his own stream from his own antenna. It's like the difference between setting up a cable card and Internet stream server yourself, and hiring a tech guy to come to your house and set it up for you.

The critical difference with Aero is that it's never your antenna. It's leased, not owned, and moreover, Aero treats the antennas themselves on a fungible basis, meaning that they they simply maintain a 1:1 relationship between the number of antennas and the number of subscribers, so you're not even leasing any specific piece of equipment. You're just buying individual access to an independently owned and operated antenna array.

That's miles away from "just hiring a tech guy to come over and set up your cable card".

Re: Supreme court: Aereo is violating copyright law [pdf]

#340
post #338
post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't matter. I know you don't like that but that's the way it is. Common law isn't source code running on a machine with perfectly defined rules, it's a set of values adjudicated by judges. They looked at Aereo and said: It looks like a cable company and quacks like a cable company so it's gotta act like a cable company. The precise configuration of equipment they have in their datacenter doesn't matter.

I'm not arguing that the law is the way I think it should be. I'm just arguing that the law is really dumb, and that it's pretty clear the legal system just makes decisions that serve the interests of powerful lobbies, rather than some intelligent or even discernible set of rules or principles.

I understand that you think it's really dumb but I think most people would disagree with you. When you get bogged down in the technical details of Aereo's datacenter configuration you miss the forrest for the trees. They're a company that streams TV into people's homes. Other companies (the cable companies) have to pay a fee to the content creators to do that. Why should it be different for Aereo?

It costs a lot of money to make American Idol and CSI and to license the rights to the Super Bowl. The people that own that content should have a right to license it out in whatever manner they choose.

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