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Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

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Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#331

Post by Zikes »

nightski wrote: post #301
Zikes wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cameraman's salary is paid by the movie's budget, which is effectively a loan against the projected future earnings of a film. Sure the cameraman already got paid for the film you just pirated, but if said film doesn't earn enough then the studio will decide to make fewer films or go bankrupt, either of which could cost the cameraman their job and significantly reduce future earning potential.

But if the movie wasn't worth any money to said person in the first place, then maybe it isn't such a big loss. Maybe some just do not value cinema entertainment very much even though they may watch a movie.

Absolutely. Certainly the hypothetical cameraman has no inherent right to be paid to do whatever they want to do, I only assert that the so-called utopian pirate market is incapable of sustaining cinema without drastic changes to the business.

Not to say those changes aren't currently necessary, only that if everyone chose to pirate rather than pay then all of Hollywood would likely just shut down rather than keep throwing $100+m AAA blockbusters into a financial abyss.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#333

Post by bobbonifield »

mikehearn wrote: post #132

My ideal product is the Netflix interface with, essentially, every movie and television show ever made. I imagine there are a lot of other people out there who also wish that product existed. It's hard to say how much I would pay for it, but I'm currently spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $150/month on a collection of services (Netflix, Time Warner, Usenet) that, in the end, only provide a very poor approxima…

I've been saying the same thing for years. My hope is a company like Spotify or Rdio will lead the effort in this. The biggest obstacle is actually getting licensing rights, but honestly, I would pay so much for the service.

That said, I think the cable companies would just jack the rates on internet service to compensate for their dwindling cable usage.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#334

Post by hxa7241 »

ksk wrote: post #273
hxa7241 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That question has been answered: we have had plenty of piracy for years now -- and do we still have plenty of film/TV/music/book production? Yes! So piracy (at least, as we have known it) is not harmful, in fact it seems almost certainly beneficial economically -- more goods are more widely available.

>we have had plenty of piracy for years now -- and do we still have plenty of film/TV/music/book production? Yes! That just means despite losing "potential income" the industry is still managing to earn money via people who do not wish to circumvent Copyright Law. Or in other words, the number of people not interested in infringing copyright is greater than the number of pirates. That doesn't mean anything other than…

As Landes and Posner say in 'The economic structure of intellectual property law' (Conclusion, p422, s3) (2003):

"Economic analysis has come up short of providing either theoretical or empirical grounds for assessing the overall effect of intellectual property law on economic welfare."

And that is echoed in various other economic comment in later years. So there is an uncomfortable lack of research.

Now, the main purpose of copyright is to get the best trade-off in production level and access to goods. So given both that model and the lack of evidence, to say an increase in availability of goods, with a still strong level of production, is a good thing, seems very reasonable, does it not?

> losing 'potential income'

What does that even mean? Really, what? If people buy more coffee machines and make coffee at home, perhaps coffee-shop owners are going to say they are losing 'potential income'. Oh no! we had better ban the use of coffee-making machines!

The law is not there to ensure certain businesses make as much money as they think they should. (Well, sadly it currently is, but it ought not to be.)

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#335

Post by BerislavLopac »

I actually had the idea to a) create a similar product/service, b) charge for its use and c) transfer most of the income (keeping only enough to cover the running costs) to the producers of the original material, with or without their consent. I have no idea how would that work out, but I bet that after a few months/years of steady and growing income some things would start to change.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#337

Post by meerita »

sosborn wrote: post #277
meerita wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already have been paid. Or you think mr. sound technician guy or lovely ms. Magda the hairdresser will receive money until his last day just because they have worked on a movie. The only one who will have that right is a company, who had nothing to do with filmaking process, they just invested, and for sure, after the premiere they've got, or not, a lot of money. Even the main actors release "rights".

To me entertainment is very simple. The person who offers the entertainment presents a value. It is up to me whether or not the entertainment is worth the value. If it is, I'll pay the price, if it is not, then I will move on to one of a million other options. It's really that simple. If you don't like the deal that is offered then move on to the next one. I have no automatic right to any of the entertainment created…

Then when your friends are at your home, you kick 'em out if you want to see a movie you pay, rented? wouldn't be fair also make them pay, or will you let them consume for free too?

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#338

Post by freyr »

steveklabnik wrote: post #258
freyr wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you hopped in the taxi cab, rode to your destination, and jumped out without paying the posted fare, you'd have a point.

While infinite other people are able to also use the same taxi.

Sure, and infinite other people screw the driver. Oh, I suppose some people will pay the posted fare for their ride. As long as it doesn't have to be us, right?

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#339

Post by sosborn »

meerita wrote: post #337
sosborn wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me entertainment is very simple. The person who offers the entertainment presents a value. It is up to me whether or not the entertainment is worth the value. If it is, I'll pay the price, if it is not, then I will move on to one of a million other options. It's really that simple. If you don't like the deal that is offered then move on to the next one. I have no automatic right to any of the entertainment created…

Then when your friends are at your home, you kick 'em out if you want to see a movie you pay, rented? wouldn't be fair also make them pay, or will you let them consume for free too?

Which rental service requires that each person watching pays a separate fee? If the terms dictated something like that then I simply wouldn't rent from that service.

Re: Popcorn Time – Watch torrent movies instantly

#340

Post by a8000 »

JPKab wrote: post #144
quadrangle wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it should not be so easy to benefit from someone else's hard work without compensating them. Nonsense. I benefit from the work of Mozart and feel no need to compensate anyone. There are real issues with funding mechanisms and creative work in a shareable digital world, but we can reject the idea that you should always pay for anything that is beneficial. If you want to give gifts to creative folks you like, you can…

I'm a left of center guy, but this kind of thinking is a very ugly slippery slope. Its not that anyone should always expect to pay for things that are beneficial, its the fact that people who very recently WORKED to create the very thing you are benefiting from should be PAID for their work. If everyone followed your logic, we wouldn't have 12 Years A Slave. The props cost money. The costumes cost money. The cameras…

The alternative is to ask people to fund the movie in advance. Either in forms of a mandatory fee (like in Germany where each household has to pay ~20 Euro for public television) or in some other way. Since digital copies are free, their price should be close to zero.
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